[1. CALL TO ORDER ] [00:00:06] >> AT 6 P.M. THE CITY COUNCIL HAS A QUORUM PRESENT IN THE CITY HALL AUTHORIZED BY SECTION 551 IN TEXAS GOVERNMENT CODE THIS MEETING WILL CONVENE AND CLOSES AT RECESSION. IN THE CITY RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REASSESS THE WORK SESSION OR CALL EXECUTIVE SESSION ORDER BUSINESS AT ANY TIME. FOR IN PERSON COMMENTS REGISTRATION FORMS AND INSTRUCTIONS ARE AVAILABLE ON THE TABLE IN THE HALL OUTSIDE OF THE CONFERENCE ROOM. WE DID RECEIVE ONE -- [2. CITIZENS INPUT] THAT'S A GENERAL COMMENT. WE HAVE A FEW REQUEST TO SPEAK FORMS. OUR FIRST ONE IS JOHN. YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES, STATE YOUR NAME, CITY OF RESIDENCE FOR THE RECORD. >> MY NAME IS JOHN. LET ME THANK EVERYBODY FOR BEING HERE AND FOR TAKING UP THE ISSUE AND HOW THEY HAVE THE NON-PERMITTED ACTIONS . I WANT TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR COMING TOGETHER TO CONSIDER THAT . THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. NEXT SPEAKER IS MARK . SAY YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE FOR THE RECORD. >> GOOD EVENING. THANK YOU . I'M HERE TONIGHT TO SUPPORT THE RELIEF EXEMPTION AND RETROACTIVE ORDINANCES FOR ACCESSORY STRUCTURES PRIOR TO THE ORDINANCE CHANGE OF DECEMBER 2019. >> OKAY. I LIKE THIS. ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE JILL GALLOPS. >> I THINK SHE'S IN THE HALLWAY. >> I KNOW NONE OF THOSE ARE JILL GALLOPS. >> HI. GOOD. STATE YOUR NAME AND CITY OF RESIDENCE FOR THE RECORD. >> TELL GALLOPS AND FRIENDS. LAUGHTER ] >> IT'S A VERY SPECIAL PERSON'S BIRTHDAY. WE HAVE A SPECIAL PROCLAMATION FOR YOU. WHEREAS THE PERSON BUT THEY CAN BE TRACED BACK TO THE ANCIENT EGYPT WHERE LARGE CELEBRATIONS THE FIRST OF WHICH IS THOUGHT TO HAVE TAKEN PLACE SOMEWHERE AROUND THE YEAR 3000 B.C.E.. UNFORTUNATELY IT WAS NOT DOCUMENTED. WHEREAS THE CELEBRATION OF THE ANNIVERSARY OF ONE'S BIRTH HAS BECOME TIME-HONORED TRADITION NOT ONLY FOR THE CITY OF BRALETTE BUT ACROSS THE NATION AND WORLD AND POSSIBLY EXTENDING INTO OTHER PLANETS . WHEREAS MOST RESEARCH POINTS IT'S THE FIRST SOCIETY TO ADOPT THE PRACTICE OF CELEBRATING BIRTHDAYS I GIVING GENEROUS GIFTS. AMONG OTHER ACTIVITIES OF COURSE. WHEREAS THE ANCIENT GREEKS BEGAN THE PRACTICE OF CELEBRATING BIRTHDAYS AND BIRTHDAY CAKE DECORATE THE CANDLES THIS UNFORTUNATELY WOULD PRESENT A HAZARD. WE WON'T LIKE THAT TONIGHT HERE. WHEREAS WE CAN THINK OF NO GIFT OR GENEROUS OR DELICIOUS THAN THAT OF CAKE AND ALL OF THEIR SCRUMPTIOUS FLAVORS. WHEREAS THE 25TH BIRTHDAY IS A SPECIAL MILESTONE THAT DESIGNATES A POPULAR POINT BETWEEN YOUNG ADULTHOOD AND THE DEPRESSING DOWNHILL -- >> IT'S BEEN THREE MINUTES. YOU ARE DONE. >> SO, WHEREAS THE BIRTHDAY COMES BUT ONCE OF THE MAYOR OR ANY OTHER PERSON AND WHEREAS THOSE CERTAIN SELECT ACTUALS AND HONORARY RESIDENCE OF THE SUBDIVISION AND MALLET THE CAR CLUB ARE DEDICATED TO THE MISSION AND INSTILLING AS MUCH [00:05:03] FUN AS WE CAN INTO THE LIFE OF OUR DULY ELECTED FRIEND AND BY EMBARRASSING HIM. >> THEREFORE ON BEHALF OF OUR CITY COUNCIL DO WE HEREBY CELEBRATE THE DATE OF JUNE 3RD, 2024 AS THE MAY ORIOLE DATE OF BIRTH IN THE CITY OF BRALETTE AND DECLARE OFFICIALLY ACKNOWLEDGED TO HAVE BEEN ALIVE AND KICKING ON THIS EARTH FOR A QUARTER OF A CENTURY, MOST OF WHICH HE'S SPENT HERE AT CITY HALL. WE FURTHER RECOGNIZE THE VITAL ROLE THAT ETHAN AND CHRISSY PLAYED IN MAKING THIS DAY POSSIBLE. AN OFFICIAL RECOGNITION THEREOF WE HEREBY OFFICIALLY . THIS THIRD DAY OF JUNE. IT EVEN HAS THE OFFICIAL SEAL ON THE SLEEVE. ] >> TIME TO GET BACK TO BUSINESS. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU FOR THE EMBARRASSMENT. I APPRECIATE IT. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A PARTY AFTERWARDS. >> WE CAN YIELD AND GIVE YOU MORE. >> OKAY. YEAH. >> LABEL GET BACK. THANK YOU SO MUCH. OH MY GOSH. I'M EMBARRASSED. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO GLAD THAT IS OVER. I'M NOT GOING TO ASK IF THERE'S ANY [3A. Annual Presentation of Activity from the Arts and Humanities Commission. (15 minutes)] MORE CITIZENS. WE ARE MOVING ON. WE ARE GOING TO GO TO ITEM THREE A. ANNUAL PRESENTATION OF ACTIVITY FROM THE ARTS AND HUMANITIES COMMISSION. HELLO. >> COUNCIL, MAYOR, CITIZENS. I'M HERE WITH OUR CHAIR AND SHE IS GOING TO BE PRESENTING INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT THE ARTS AND HUMANITIES COMMISSION HAS BEEN UP TO FOR THE PAST YEAR. >> THE COMMISSION WITH CHARGED WITH DEVELOPING APPRECIATION AND PARTICIPATION IN HEARTS AND HUMANITIES OF THE CITY OF BRALETTE. HERE ARE MEMBERS FROM 2023 -- NO LONGER WITH US. -- I CANNOT EVER SAY HIS LAST NAME. JR . THANK YOU. BAILEY GOT MOVED UP. SARAH IS NO LONGER WITH US. STEVE -- WE DO NOT HAVE ANY ALTERNATES THIS YEAR. SO, IT IS THE NEXT ONE. THIS IS MEMBERS FROM 2024. CATHERINE CRENSHAW IS THE VICE CHAIR TAKING OVER NEXT YEAR. WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SOME ALTERNATES IF THAT IS AT ALL POSSIBLE HERE. WE DID OUR CALENDAR. THAT WAS FUN. FOR THE CALENDAR WE DO THE PHOTO CONTEST AND YOUNG ARTIST EXHIBIT PICTURES . WHAT ELSE DO WE DO? PRETTY MUCH ANY KIND OF ENTRIES FROM OUR CONTEST. >> WE USE THOSE AS FODDER FOR THE CALENDAR. WE ARE MATCHING IT UP WITH THE SEASON OR THE YEAR. FUN PHOTOS FOR THE COVER FOR EACH MONTH . ARE CULTURAL GRANTS THIS YEAR WE HAD A LOT OF PARTICIPANTS IN OUR CULTURAL GRANTS. WE WERE SO PROUD OF THAT. WE GAVE ARTISTS AROUND TEXAS $1000 AND WE GAVE MALLET $2000 FOR COSTUMES AND STAGE. ARTISTS AROUND TEXAS DO A PHENOMENAL JOB AND HAVE TWO SHOWS A YEAR . ONE IN THE SPRING AND FALL. THE MAYOR ALWAYS DOES A JUDGING FOR THAT FOR BOTH CONTESTS. THE ARTS AND EDUCATION GRANTS IS WHERE WE REALLY EXCEL THIS YEAR. WE [00:10:03] RECEIVED NINE REQUESTS FOR GRANTS WHICH IS MORE I PUT ON THE BOARD SINCE I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY YEARS NOW. THIS IS THE MOST GRANTS I'VE EVER SEEN. I'VE BEEN ON THIS PARTICULAR COMMITTEE SINCE I STARTED ON THE BOARD. WE WERE JUST BLOWN AWAY . WITH AS MANY REQUESTS AS WE RECEIVED WE DID GIVE THE HIGH SCHOOL ART DEPARTMENT $900 FOR COLORED INK CARTRIDGES, $1600 FOR COSTUMING FOR THE RALLY THEATER DEPARTMENT AND WE GAVE $3000 OF TRANSPORTATION FOR A COMPETITION AT HAWAIIAN WATERS. OUR WRITING CONTEST WE HAD A LOT OF ENTRIES THIS YEAR. WE GAVE AWAY TWO PRIZES. FIRST-PLACE OF 150, SECOND OF $50. THIS WAS A VERY WELL RECEIVED CONTEST ALSO. OUR YOUNG ARTIST EXHIBIT WAS A LOT OF FUN THIS YEAR. >> WE HAD 74 ENTRIES THIS YEAR. IT IS THE MOST WE'VE HAD IN A WHILE. >> THIS WAS A LOT OF ENTRIES. THE WORK WAS PHENOMENAL. RALLY SEEMED TO HAVE CLOSED A FEW WEEKS AGO WAS WE HAD A GREAT TURNOUT AND IT WAS A LOT OF FUN. THE PARTICIPANTS REALLY HAD A GREAT TIME. I'M SORRY. I'M NERVOUS TONIGHT, I DON'T KNOW WHY. I KNOW ALL OF YOU. LET'S SEE. WE HAD LOW PARTICIPATION . SINCE COVID IT PICKED UP. THERE WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE THERE TO SEE THEIR FRIENDS AND FAMILY PERFORM. THERE WAS A LOT THAT CAME TO LISTEN AND SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON. THEY WERE CURIOUS ABOUT IT. IT WAS FUN. WE HAD 13 PERFORMERS THIS YEAR WHICH WAS KIND OF A RECORD NUMBER. >> 120 AUDIENCE MEMBERS. IN PREVIOUS YEARS WE HAVEN'T HAD CASH AWARDS BUT WE DECIDED TO TRY TO GET IF YOU GOING TO GO UP AND SING IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY AND BEAR YOUR SOUL WE THOUGHT MAYBE CASH SHOULD ACCOMPANY THAT. WE THINK THAT AND REALLY DEDICATED ADVERTISING ON SOCIAL MEDIA IS WHAT HELPED US TO GET INCREASED PARTICIPATION BOTH IN THE AUDIENCE MEMBERS AND PARTICIPANTS. >> OUR PHOTOGRAPHY CONTEST HASN'T HAPPENED YET. IT HAPPENS IN AUGUST. WE LOOK TO HAVE A BIG TURNOUT. THEY'VE ARTIE STARTED ANNOUNCING IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA. >> PUBLICITY TEAM. THAT IS THE WORD. THE ORNAMENT DECORATING. WE HAD SO MUCH FUN. THEY DID THAT DURING THE 12 DAYS OF CHRISTMAS ALONG WITH THE CITY ACTIVITIES AND WE HAD A LOT OF PARTICIPANTS IN THAT. KIDS REALLY SEEM TO ENJOY MAKING ORNAMENTS FOR ARTS AND HUMANITIES AS WELL AS ONE TO TAKE HOME. >> WE WORKED WITH THE PARKS AND REC AND THAT WORKED VERY WELL. >> THEN WE HAVE OUR FIRST TROMBONE THANKSGIVING WHICH HONESTLY I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IT WOULD BE BUT IT WAS SO MUCH FUN. OH MY GOSH. IT WAS A LOT OF FUN. WE HAD A LOT OF PARTICIPATION AND QUITE A FEW PEOPLE THAT CAME DOWNTOWN TO SEE WHAT A TROMBONE SYMPHONY WOULD LOOK LIKE. I THINK EVERYBODY WAS SO PLEASANTLY SURPRISED IT WAS A GREAT TIME. THEY DID VERY WELL. I HOPE TO DO IT AGAIN THIS YEAR. GREAT KICKOFF. >> OUR NEW PUBLIC ART WAS DOWN ON STATION 2. WE WERE VERY CLOSELY ON THIS AND THANK YOU TO OUR ARTIST. IT'S JUST A BEAUTIFUL TRIBUTE TO 9/11 AND TO OUR OWN FIRE DEPARTMENT. WHAT ELSE DID WE DO? OUR ARTIST EXCHANGE. IT HAPPENED THE OTHER NIGHT. I THINK IT WAS MAY 16TH. THEY HAD A BLAST. ROBERT LEE WAS SO GRACIOUS FOR LETTING US [00:15:01] USE FOR OUR ARTIST EXCHANGE OR ARTISTS GET TOGETHER AND TALK. WE HAD A SPEAKER COME IN AND TALK TO THEM ABOUT THE USE OF AI WITH ART AND GETTING SOME FEEDBACK FROM THEM. NINE PEOPLE ATTENDED. FOR US THAT IS A VERY WELL RECEIVED ARTIST EXCHANGE. >> AT SOMETHING NEW WE ARE HOPING TO TAKE OFF. >> OUR GOALS DEVELOPMENT OF OUR MAINTENANCE PROGRAM IS WHAT WE HOPE TO GET DONE IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF A STRATEGIC PLAN FOR PUBLIC ART WE WOULD LIKE TO WORK WITH THE CITY AND SOME CITIZENS IN THE CITY TO HELP US IN THAT GOAL. CONTINUING TO WORK WITH COMMUNITY TO PROVIDE THE APPRECIATION OF THE ARTS. >> WE KNOW WITH DOWNTOWN AND THE STRATEGIC PLAN FOR DOWNTOWN THAT IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR ART DOWNTOWN THAT HAS BEEN A LOT OF SUGGESTION ON HOW TO MAKE PLACE MAKING THINGS AND STUFF. THE COMMISSION IS REALLY EXCITED ABOUT BEING ABLE TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY BUT THEY ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE GOT GOOD PLANS, WE HAVE GOT GOOD IDEAS AND IT'S NOT AS REACTIONARY THAT WE HAVE KIND OF A PLAN INSTEAD OF WE ARE GOING TO DO FIRE STATION. WE HAVE TO DO THIS. WE HAVE KIND OF A PLAN FOR WHAT ART INSTALLATIONS WE SHOULD BE MOVING FORWARD WITH. ANY QUESTIONS ? >> MY FAVORITE PART IS YOU HAVE A PLANE FOR MAINTENANCE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> WE ARE COMING UP WITH A MAINTENANCE PLAN. WE ARE WORKING WITH THE ARTS DEPARTMENT AND RIGHT NOW WE HAVE GOT ONE SCULPTURE WE ARE WORKING ON. IT WAS ONE OF THE LAST WAXING AND EVERYTHING. IT IS SPARKLE OVER STATION ONE ON MILLER. IT'S NOT LOOKING AS SPARKLY AS IT USED TO. WE ARE WORKING WITH THE ARTIST AND HIS GALLERY ON A SOLUTION FOR THAT. WE ARE WORKING WITH PUBLIC WORKS ON A MAINTENANCE PROGRAM TO MAKE SURE WE ARE ALL TAKING CARE OF THE CITY'S ASSETS. >> YOU MENTIONED YOU DON'T HAVE THE ALTERNATES. ONE OF THE THINGS IN THE NEW HANDBOOK THAT WE ADOPTED RECENTLY WAS A DIVISION WE WOULD GIVE ALL BOARDS AT LEAST TWO ALTERNATES. SOMETIMES IT'S HARD. IF YOU NEED MORE WE CAN GIVE YOU MORE. WE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH A QUORUM. >> THEY GOT YOU. I CROSS MY FINGERS EVERY MEETING THAT EVERYBODY CAN MAKE IT. WITH SOME PEOPLE WORKING OUTSIDE OF THE CITY IT IS HARD TO GET IN. SO FAR SO GOOD. IT'S ALWAYS NICE TO HAVE SOMEONE IN THE BACKGROUND. >> IF IT IS AN URGENT PROBLEM WE CAN PUT IT ON THE AGENDA BEFORE. >> . IT HASN'T BEEN A PROBLEM. IT HASN'T BEEN AN ISSUE. IT'S ALWAYS NICE TO HAVE ANOTHER PERSON THAT'S GOING TO BE THERE IN CASE SOMEONE CAN'T MAKE IT. LET US KNOW IF THAT'S AN ISSUE. >> I WILL. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >> WE HAVE HAD SOME TURNOVER. YES. YES. >> THIS YEAR WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE FOR ALTERNATES FOR US WHICH WE HAVE A VERY DEDICATED COMMISSION. EVERYBODY LIKES EVERYBODY. NOT EVERYBODY CAN BE ON THE MEETINGS BUT WE ALL TRY. SOMETIMES. SOMETIMES WE FORGET THERE IS ONE. ANYWAY. I DIGRESS. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. WE APPRECIATE IT. WE APPRECIATE EVERYTHING YOU DO FOR US. >> THANK YOU. >> HAPPY BIRTHDAY BY THE WAY. INDISCERNIBLE ] >> THE NEXT ITEM IS ITEM 3B, [3B. Present and receive input regarding the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) Community Development Block Grant Program 2024 Annual Action Plan. (30 minutes) ] [00:20:04] PRESENT AND RECEIVE INPUT REGARDING THE DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT PROGRAM 2024 ACTION PLAN. >> GOOD EVENING. NICE TO MEET YOU ALL. MISS CAROL IS THE NAME WHO USUALLY DOES THIS FOR YOU BUT SHE HAS COVID. I'M STEPPING IN TONIGHT. THIS IS THE FOURTH YEAR OF A FIVE-YEAR ACTION PLAN. THIS IS OUR ANNUAL UPDATE FOR THIS PROGRAM. LOOKING FOR SOME COUNCIL INPUT . WE WILL TALK ABOUT THAT. WE ARE FOLLOWING THE PROCESS OUTLINED HOW THE HOUSING IRVING DEVELOPMENT . FUNDING LAST YEAR WE HAD 270,000. THIS YEAR WE HAVE 300,000 SO IT IS GROWN A BIT. THIS IS BASICALLY LOOKING AT SPECIFIC ELIGIBLE PROGRAMS. IT IS FAIRLY RESTRICTIVE ON HOW WE CAN SPEND THE FUNDS. IN THE PAST WE'VE SPEND IT ON PUBLIC FACILITIES AND ALLEY RECONSTRUCTION. IT IS IN DESIGN RIGHT NOW. IT WILL BE COMPLETED WITH THESE FUNDS. WE HAVE A CRIME PREVENTION PROGRAM WHICH IS PART OF OUR PUBLIC SERVICES WHICH IS 15% OF THE ALLOCATION. THAT IS AN AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAM IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. SALVATION ARMY ACTUALLY LEADS OUR FAIR HOUSING PROGRAM. IN HIS MORTGAGE FOR PEOPLE WHO QUALIFY. ABOUT $18,000 WAS ALLOCATED . WE JUST GOT AN UPDATE. >> WAS THAT SIX HOUSEHOLDS? 10 AT THIS POINT. THE RECOMMENDED ALLOCATION NEXT YEAR IS TO INCREASE OUR CRIME PREVENTION PROGRAM AS WE WORK THROUGH THAT FUNDING ALREADY THIS YEAR. WE HAVE IDENTIFIED ANOTHER ALLEY THAT QUALIFIES . HE HAD PICTURES OF THE ALLEY AND ITS CURRENT CONDITION. JUST TAKE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE NATIONAL OBJECTIVES OF THE PROGRAM IN GENERAL IS TO REALLY PREVENT AND ELIMINATE AND HELP COMMUNITY ADDRESS THE NEEDS OF LOW INCOME HOUSING. IT REALLY IS RESTRICTED TO PEOPLE WHO NEED SPECIAL OR LOW INCOME WHICH IS 80% OF THE DALLAS INCOME LEVEL. YOU CAN SEE THAT BASED ON THE HOUSEHOLD SIZE OVER TO THE RIGHT. YOU CAN SPEND 20% ON ADMINISTRATION THAT COVERS COST FOR THE PROGRAM, 15% OF PUBLIC SERVICES AND OTHER ACTIVITIES. PUBLIC SERVICES THESE ARE THE THINGS YOU DO WITH PUBLIC SERVICES. WE ARE DOING TWO OF THOSE INITIATIVES WITH FAIR HOUSING AND CRIME PREVENTION. THE OTHER FUNDING CAN GO THROUGH MORE DIVERSE ACTIVITIES IN THAT AREA. SOMETIMES IT CAN BE CHALLENGING TO GET THOSE THINGS TO WORK WITH THE FUNDING WE HAVE AND TO FIND WHO WOULD QUALIFY. OUR COMMUNITY FOCUSED ON THAT SIDE BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING THAT MEETS AND QUALIFIES AND IF YOU DON'T GET THE MONEY OUT THE DOOR QUICK ENOUGH THEN YOU CAN GET CONCERNED ABOUT THAT OVER TIME. THIS IS OUR CENSUS TRACT SO YOU CAN SEE WE HAVE SOME FAIRLY NARROW AREAS INCLUDING THAT QUALIFY FOR FUNDING. WE LOOK AT THOSE TO IDENTIFY THE PROJECTS. WE HAVE TWO PUBLIC MEETINGS HELD ON MAY 29TH. WE DIDN'T GET ANY FROM THE PUBLIC TO TALK TO US ABOUT THE PROGRAM. WE HAVE A THIRD REQUIRED PUBLIC HEARING. THERE'S A PROJECT ON THE 16TH. AS WE GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS WE WILL GET THAT PUBLIC HEARING TO DELIVER THE ACTION PLAN IN AUGUST. NEXT YEAR , WE WILL ADOPT A NEW FIVE-YEAR PLAN. THAT IS TO WORK WITH COUNCIL AND COMMUNITY TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY CHANGES IN PRIORITIES AND CHANGES ON PROGRAMS YOU WANT TO INITIATE FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEAR PROCESS. IT'S EASIER TO ADJUST THE PROGRAM AT THE FIVE-YEAR STEP. YOU MAY CHANGE AT THE ANNUAL ACTION PLAN TO DO A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT WHICH CAN DELAY. THAT WAS QUICK. ANY QUESTIONS? >> WENT AND HOW IS THE MAP UPDATED? >> BASED ON THE CENSUS. JUST RESTART IT. THAT'S A BETTER WAY TO LOOK AT IT. [00:25:09] >> IT HASN'T BEEN UPDATED IN A FEW YEARS. I DID JUST LAST WEEK REACH OUT TO THEM IF THEY HAD AN UPDATE. >> IT JUST HASN'T CHANGED. >> YES. >> I WAS SURPRISED WITH THE SOUTHEAST SECTION . >> A LOT HAPPENING IN THE AREA. >> THEY WERE BEHIND. THEY WANT US TO USE . >> ON YOUR SLIDE YOU HAVE A CATEGORY FOR DEMOLITION. IS THAT DEMOLISHING STRUCTURES? >> YEAH. YOU COULD PUT IN PLACE AN ORDINANCE THAT DEFINES AND YOU CAN GO OUT AND USUALLY IS DEMOLISHING THOSE BUILDINGS. >> HOW ARE THOSE MEETINGS ON MAY 29TH? I HAD NO IDEA THEY WERE TAKING PLACE. >> THEY WERE IN THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS. >> OKAY. WAS IT ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE? >> ON THE PUBLIC HEARING. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY PUT IT ON THAT ONE. I KNOW THEY PHYSICALLY PUT IT ON THE BULLETIN BOARDS AND IT WAS SET. >> IT MEETS THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS. WE WANT TO ACTUALLY GET PEOPLE IN THERE WE PROBABLY SHOULD POST ON FACEBOOK. >> ABSOLUTELY. WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT HAPPENS. >> EVEN IF NO ONE SHOWED UP. >> WE ARE REQUIRED TO. I HELD TWO ON THAT DAY. >> THIS MAY BE COMPLETELY OFF-BASE. THE $30,000 IS GOING TO SALVATION ARMY. AS WE ARE SETTING THE FIVE-YEAR PLAN DOES THE R HFC QUALIFIED AS AN ENTITY THAT COULD ALSO RECEIVE SOME OR ALL OF THAT $30,000 RATHER THAN THE SALVATION ARMY? >> I DON'T THINK SO. >> PART OF WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS MORTGAGE FIRST MORTGAGE INSURANCE AND THAT TYPE OF THING. WE DON'T HAVE A REAL GOOD FINANCIAL POSITION RIGHT NOW AND WE ARE NEVER GOING TO BE A HUGE MONEYMAKING ENTITY. ANYTHING WE CAN DO THAT HELPS PUMP UP A LITTLE BIT TO LET US HELP THE MISSION. SORRY. >> THEY DO SERVE A CONSIDERABLE PART. >> MAYBE THEY DO MORE WORK THAN WHAT WE ARE ABLE TO DO. I'M TALKING MORE ABOUT INCLUDING IT IN THE FIVE-YEAR PLAN. SOMETHING WE WOULD DO RIGHT NOW. BUT I WOULD ASK TO CONSIDER THAT. AS AN OPTION. >> THE PROGRAM AS I UNDERSTAND IT THROUGH THE SALVATION ARMY IS TO NOT HELP FIRST-TIME HOMEBUYERS. BASICALLY PEOPLE WHO NEED A BRIDGE LOOKING AT HOUSING SECURITY. THE CHALLENGE WITH FIRST-TIME HOMEBUYERS IS THE HOUSE CAN'T BE ABOVE A CERTAIN VALUE. YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE VALUES TO YOUR COMMUNITY BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT PAYMENT. THAT PUTS A CEILING ON THE VALUE. YOU LOOK TO YOUR COMMUNITY TO SEE HOW MUCH YOUR INVENTORY PROBLEMS THAT CAN SATISFY THAT AND WHETHER THEY ARE UP FOR SALE. >> IT COULD BE QUITE COMPLICATED . >> I UNDERSTAND MAYBE THE COMPLICATIONS. >> THE OTHER THING GREAT ABOUT SALVATION ARMY IS THEY ARE WILLING TO HELP THE RESIDENTS OUT WITH UTILITIES PROGRAM. I THINK EVERY YEAR HAS BEEN 100% REALIZED. YEAH. THERE IS NOT A PENNY LEFT. >> MAYBE THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO USE IT. I JUST WANTED TO THROW THAT OUT. >> IT HELPS WHEN WE HAVE RESIDENTS CALL THAT ARE ABOUT TO GET THEIR WATER SHUT OFF AND WE ARE ABLE TO OFFER A RESOURCE TO HELP THEM. WE CAN BE SURE WE DON'T HAVE TO SHUT THEIR WATER [00:30:03] OFF FOR NONPAYMENT. THERE'S SOME GREAT VALUE WORKING WITH THE SALVATION ARMY THAT WAY. I DEFINITELY UNDERSTAND THE DESIRE TO WORK WITH THE AGENCY ON THIS. I THINK IT WOULD BE TOO RESTRICTIVE FOR THE PURPOSES SO. IT WAS A GOOD IDEA THOUGH. >> TO QUESTIONS. THE DANA DRIVE ALLIE THAT IS ON THE PROGRAM SEEMS LONGER IN LENGTH THAN THE DENVER ALLIE. THE COST IS LIKE 20,000 MORE. IS THAT BECAUSE OF INFLATION OR THE CURVES IN THE ALLEY? WHAT DRIVES THAT COST? >> IS ESTIMATED AT 300,000. IT IS STILL IN THE DESIGN PHASE. WE HAD COST SAVINGS FROM PRIOR YEARS. EVEN LAST YEAR WE ONLY HAD 175 . THIS YEAR WE ARE CAUGHT UP TO WHERE WE WILL ONLY HAVE WHAT WE HAVE THIS YEAR. WE DIDN'T WANT TO OVER EXTEND. >> WE USED PREVIOUS FUNDS TO SUPPLEMENT. OKAY. >> WE ARE REALLY NOT SURE. IT'S JUST KIND OF A GUESSING GAME. >> THE GROWTH IN THE POLICE PROGRAM I UNDERSTAND THERE WAS A MENTION IT WILL HELP OR ACTUALLY WE HAD GONE OVER EXPENSES FROM LAST YEAR. ARE WE RELATIVELY CERTAIN ALLOCATION THIS YEAR IS AN OFF FOR THE WHOLE PROGRAM ? >> THE FIRST TWO YEARS IT WASN'T BEING UTILIZED. WE SOLVED THOSE PROBLEMS AND THEN THEY WERE UTILIZING IT. THEY RAN OUT . WE WENT IN AND DID AN ESTIMATE ON WHAT THEY WERE USING AND THEY USED THE GENERAL IN 12 MONTHS . IT SHOULD COVER FOR NEXT YEAR. >> THANK YOU. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. HOW LONG ARE WE TALKING HERE? OKAY. LET'S DO FIVE MINUTES AND RECONVENE IN FIVE MINUTES. THANK YOU. COUNCIL , 6:32 P.M. WE ARE GOING INTO RECESS. MEET IN FIVE MINUTES. THANK YOU. [3C. Hold a discussion and receive direction on changes to procedure regarding approval of unpermitted structures. (30 minutes) ] [00:38:14] >> WE HAVE RECONVENED AND WE ARE GOING INTO ITEM 3C WHICH IS HOLD A DISCUSSION AND RECEIVE DIRECTION ON CHANGES TO PROCEDURE REGARDING APPROVAL OF UNPERMITTED STRUCTURES. PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF. >> I WANT TO TAKE A MINUTE TO INTRODUCE. WE ARE SO HAPPY ON HER SECOND WEEK AND HAS HIT THE GROUND RUNNING. WE ARE VERY EXCITED TO HAVE HER AS PART OF OUR TEAM. SHE HAS A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH DIFFERENT ASPECTS. HAS ALSO SERVED IN MANY DIFFERENT ROLES. HAS A MASTERS IN PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION . THAT'S HOW WE KNOW EACH OTHER. IF YOU WANT TO SHARE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT YOURSELF WE ARE SUPER EXCITED TO HAVE HER HERE. WE HAVE BEEN VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE LAST FIVE DAYS. THINGS ARE LOOKING VERY GREAT. >> I'M GLAD YOU ARE POSITIVE. >> WE HAVE BEEN RUNNING. IT'S OKAY. >> GOING UPHILL FROM THERE. JUST KIND OF GETTING USED TO EVERYTHING. BEFORE WE GET STARTED ON THIS I APOLOGIZE THIS DOESN'T REALLY ALIGN WITH THE STAFF REPORTS YOU MAY HAVE READ. I WASN'T REALLY FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THE INTENTION WAS AT THE ITEM REQUEST. HOPEFULLY I CAN ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU [00:40:02] MIGHT HAVE. THIS FIRST ITEM WAS THE COUNCIL REQUESTING AN ITEM FOR STAFF TO LOOK AT THE OPTIONS FOR POTENTIALLY GRANTING -- ALL RIGHT. SOME SORT OF RETROACTIVE APPROVAL TO ACCESSORY STRUCTURES TO BE NONCONFORMING AT A CERTAIN POINT IN TIME. IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE WAS A COMMENT RELATED TO THAT TOPIC TODAY. THIS DOESN'T COME UP PREVIOUSLY. THERE ARE WAYS TO GO ABOUT DOING THAT. THE INTENT FOR US IS TO FEEL OUT WHERE THE COUNCIL FEELS ON THAT AND TO KIND OF MOVE FORWARD WITH AND WORK ON INTERACTING ANY ORDINANCE CHANGES ALONG WITH THAT. WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT SOME CHALLENGES IN THAT PATH AND MAYBE MAKE SURE EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS WHAT OPTIONS ARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE TO PROPERTY OWNERS WHO HAVE THE SITUATION. FEEL FREE TO STOP ME IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS. WHENEVER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PENDING APPROVAL WAS ON ALL THE REQUIREMENTS FOR SETBACK AND OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT IT'S A LITTLE LESS SCARY BUT WHEN WE GET TO A BLANKET APPROVAL WITHOUT INSPECTION OR EVALUATION WE HAVE TO CONSIDER WHETHER THE SITUATION MAY BE IN ANY REQUIRED SETBACKS. THEY MAY HAVE CONSTRUCTED THESE BUILDINGS ACROSS EASEMENTS THAT NEEDED TO BE LEFT OPEN. WE REALLY JUST DON'T KNOW WITH ANY SORT OF SURVEY FOR SHOWING WHERE THE PROPERTY LINES ARE . WE HAVE SEEN DRAINAGE ISSUES WHICH WE HAVE SEEN IN OTHER ISSUES TO COME BEFORE THE CITY. JUST KIND OF KEEPING THOSE THINGS IN MIND WHEN TALKING THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME CONSIDERATION IF IT COMPLIES WITH X, Y, AND Z OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THERE'S POTENTIAL CONCERNS WITH THE BUILDING QUALITY AND TYPES OF MATERIALS THIS WAS CONSTRUCTED WITHOUT ANY INSTRUCTIONS THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS. SOME STRUCTURES HAVE ELECTRICITY OR PLUMBING OR OTHER THINGS. IF THEY DON'T HAVE ANY INSPECTION REPORTS THROUGHOUT THAT PROCESS THERE MAY BE SOME SAFETY OR OTHER ISSUES RELATED TO THAT STRUCTURE. ONE THING I IMAGINE WE WOULD HEAR OVER IN THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT WOULD BE FROM THOSE WHO HAVE HAD TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF PERMITS OR HAD TO GET SPECIAL APPROVALS OR MOVE THEIR PLANS OR CHANGE PLANS TO BEGIN WITH THE CITY AND SOME EQUITY CONCERNS IF THERE WAS A BLANKET APPROVAL RETROACTIVELY. ALSO THE LAST TWO , WE DON'T HAVE ANY WAY WHERE WE WOULD HAVE A SURVEY OF THE CITY A POINT IN TIME. THERE'S NO WAY FOR US TO KNOW WHAT IS IN A POINT IN TIME. THERE MAY BE DIFFICULTIES WITH US GOING FORWARD. I BELIEVE THE CODE SAYS IT IS RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PROPERTY OWNER TO PROVE TO US WHEN SOMETHING IS CONSTRUCTED. THAT MIGHT BE DIFFICULT AS WELL JUST GOING BACK OVER THE YEARS THEY MAY NOT HAVE RECORDS. IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO THINK ABOUT PICKING A POINT IN TIME HISTORICALLY OR EVEN CURRENT AND SAYING EVERYTHING BEFORE THIS CAN BE APPROVED. IT'S THE UNINTENTIONAL INCENTIVE FOR APPROPRIATE PERMITS. IF THEY ARE WHAT WE CALL GRANDFATHERED IN AFTER GIVEN THIS APPROVAL AFTER CONSTRUCTING SOMETHING WITHOUT A PERMIT THERE MAY BE ISSUES OF ARE WE INCENTIVIZING PEOPLE TO THEN DO WORK ON THEIR OWN AND ASK LATER? JUST TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY IS FAMILIAR WITH THE CURRENT PROCESS RIGHT NOW IF WE HAVE THE STRUCTURE OF UP TO 500 SQUARE FEET AS LONG AS THEY COMPLY WITH OTHER APPLICABLE CODE WE JUST GO THROUGH THE NORMAL PROCESS TO SHOW A PERMIT . THE PRICING IS LISTED OUT THERE FOR BUILDINGS UNDER 250 SQUARE FEET. THAT IS IF THEY APPLIED FOR A PERMIT BEFORE CONSTRUCTION. IF THEY COME IN AFTER THE FACT, THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, WE GET RETROACTIVE APPROVAL WHERE SOMEBODY COMES IN AFTER OR PARTLY THROUGH THE PROCESS AND [00:45:03] A LOT OF THE TIME IT'S A NEIGHBOR THAT NOTICES SOMETHING OR THEY CALLED TO ASK A QUESTION AND REALIZED THEY NEEDED A PERMIT. THEY BEGIN WORK WITHOUT THE PERMIT. THE LITTLE MORE THAN THAT BASED ON THE SQUARE FOOTAGE. IF IT'S OVER 500 SQUARE FEET THEN WE HAVE THIS APPROVAL PROCESS HERE WE HAVE OUTLINED AS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. THIS SHOULD BE THE CITY COUNCIL. I'M GETTING USED TO ALL OF THE DIFFERENT PROCESSES HERE. THERE'S NO GUARANTEE IT WOULD BE APPROVED AFTER GOING THROUGH THAT PROCESS. THE APPLICANT DOES HAVE TO PAY THE FEE RIGHT NOW. THAT'S NOT THE SAME AS A STANDARD PERMIT FEE THAT CAME IN AFTER THE FACT. THAT IS STILL A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT FEE FOR SPECIAL USE. I BELIEVE THAT THIS WOULD GO THROUGH THE PROCESS BUT THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THEY WOULD OR WOULD NOT APPROVE IT. IF THE DECISION WERE TO BE MADE NOT TO ALLOW THAT STRUCTURE THEN THERE COULD BE POTENTIAL FOR THEIR ACTIONS WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT TO INTERVENE. I THINK I HAVE KIND OF COVERED WHAT WE INTENDED TO COVER. I DON'T KNOW THE WHOLE HISTORY SO IF THERE'S ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE, FEEL FREE. >> I WAS THE ONE THAT ASKED THIS TO BE PUT ON THE WORK SESSION. JUST OFF THE TOP I NEVER INTENDED APPROVAL. WHAT I WAS LOOKING TO TRY TO GET HIS RELIEF FOR THOSE RESIDENTS WHO HAD A SHELTER OR STRUCTURE REPLACED PRIOR TO THE 2019 PROCESS. I WOULDN'T WANT A BLANKET BECAUSE THERE'S PROBABLY A PLETHORA OUT THERE EITHER VIOLATING THE RIGHT-OF-WAY OR EASEMENT AND FIRE HAZARD . I'M LOOKING FOR RELIEF. I'M KIND OF A SMALL GOVERNMENT TYPE OF GUY. AS MUCH AS I CAN GET THE GOVERNMENT OUT THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR. I SAY THAT TO SAY THIS I'M NOT OPPOSED TO CODES OR PROCEDURES. I'M TRYING TO KEEP THOSE AS MINIMAL AS POSSIBLE. >> LET ME INTERJECT. WHEN YOU SAY RELIEF THAT IS WHERE WE LOOK TO YOU TO SEE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. WE CAME UP WITH WHAT IS TYPICALLY APPLIED IN A SITUATION WHERE SOMEONE IS SEEKING RELIEF. YOU DID ASK , THE COUNCIL IS GOING TO GRANT AMNESTY FOR ANYTHING CONSTRUCTED. YOU CREATED A BURDEN AS MUCH AS YOU MAY WANT SMALL GOVERNMENT WE CAN'T VERIFY EX. THINK ABOUT WHAT WE TALK ABOUT GOING BACK TO 2019. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS CONSTRUCTED. WE DON'T HAVE A CITY SURVEY THAT SAYS IF WE WENT BY THE PERMIT RECORD ANYTHING NOT ENCOMPASSED THERE TODAY TO BE EQUITABLE TO EVERYONE WE HAVE TO ASSUME WAS DONE THEN. IT BECOMES FOR US VERY DIFFICULT TO TRY TO PICK SOME PAST POINT AND SAY HERE IS THE RELIEF BUT IF YOU PROPOSED SOMETHING WE WANTED TO FACILITATE THE CONVERSATION. THAT'S WHERE WE WILL TRY TO TAKE THIS. >> DO YOU KNOW MY BACKGROUND AS TO HOW THIS CAME ABOUT? I THINK IT CAME ABOUT BECAUSE OF A SITUATION IN WHICH A PERSON HAD SHED THEIR WHEN A PERMIT WAS NOT REQUIRED HAD CALLED AND WAS TOLD THE PERMIT WAS NOT REQUIRED BUILT THE SHED AND HAD IT THERE FOR LIKE 18 YEARS AND IT WAS MADE TO TAKE THE SHUTDOWN. I THINK IT'S THOSE SITUATIONS WE ARE TRYING TO MAYBE GIVE HIS PEOPLE SOME SLACK BECAUSE THEY HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING THAT IN THE FUTURE PERMITS WERE GOING TO BE REQUIRED AND THEY HAD NO WAY. THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION I THINK DID NOT MEET THIS SETBACK REQUIREMENTS. THEY DIDN'T KNOW THERE WERE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T REQUIRED TO GET A PERMIT. WHEN THEY CALLED ABOUT A PERMIT AND IF THEY HAD NEEDED A PERMIT THEY WOULD'VE BEEN TOLD. THAT IS WHERE IT ALL COMES. >> SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE FOR THE LAST YEAR ALMOST I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN SOME INSTANCES -- I [00:50:01] DON'T WANT TO GET INTO BACK AND FORTH OF WHAT A CITIZEN AND STAFF SAID BECAUSE THAT'S NOT THE POINT HERE. IF SOMEONE ERECTED SOMETHING LEGAL AT THE TIME IT WAS DONE THAT HAS LEGAL NONCONFORMING STATUS AND WE SHOULDN'T, COULDN'T LEGALLY GO OUT AND TELL YOU TO MAKE IT CONFORMING NOW. I CAN'T SPEAK TO ANY SITUATION THAT HAPPENED. I WANT TO BE CLEAR IF SOMEONE DID SOMETHING LEGAL AT THE TIME THEY DID IT AND THE LAWS CHANGED THEIR PROTECTIONS ON THE BOOKS. >> THIS WAS A YEAR OR MORE AGO NOW. GOSH. I THINK THERE IS SOME ADDITIONAL CONTENT THAT HAS TO BE CONSIDERED IN THAT PARTICULAR CASE. I GET THE GIST OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. >> I THINK THAT'S WHAT -- THERE WAS SOME SETBACK ISSUES AND OTHER POTENTIAL ISSUES. I CAN'T REMEMBER. I KNOW THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A COUPLE INSTANCES THAT NO LONGER MET THAT LEGAL ALLOWANCE. ON THAT SPECIFIC CASE. IF WE ARE CONSIDERING THE PERMIT A BURDEN SHOULD WE THEN CONSIDER THE PERMIT FEE OF $1300? IS THAT WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT HERE AS MAY BE A COMPROMISE? >> THAT IS ONLY APPLICABLE FOR STRUCTURES OVER 500. >> I'M JUST TRYING TO FIND -- >> I'M THINKING CARPORTS AND PATIO COVERS AND THOSE TYPE OF THINGS ARE DIFFERENT WHEN I'M THINKING ABOUT IT. I GUESS THE CHALLENGE IF YOU WILL WHEN I THINK ABOUT THIS IS I THINK IT IS A GREAT IDEA. GIVE EVERYBODY THE CHANCE TO RESET FOR WHATEVER THE PROCESS LOOKS LIKE. THE PROCESS HAS TO BE FRIENDLY ENOUGH. SOMEONE WILL SAY I HAVE A NONCONFORMING BUILDING BUT WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME IF I NEED TO TEAR IT DOWN? HOW DO YOU FORM IT WHERE FOR WHATEVER REASONS PEOPLE HAVE NOT CONFORMED THE STRUCTURES THAT THEY FEEL COMFORTABLE? I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GET FROM HERE TO THERE. I THINK IT IS A GREAT IDEA. >> I AGREE WITH ALLOWING THIS. I THINK A NORMAL PERMIT FEE AND TO PROVE STATUS IN THE RECEIPTS I THINK PEOPLE HAVE PICTURES OF THEIR YARDS GENERALLY SPEAKING. THAT IS A THING YOU CAN SHOW. >> I WANT TO MAKE SURE I GIVE YOU THE DIFFERENCE. >> I'M THINKING OFF THE CUFF. WAYS PEOPLE CAN PROVE PRIOR TO THE CODE AND PICTURES AS THEY SAY IS WORTH 1000 WORDS. >> HERE'S THE THING, ADMINISTRATIVELY WE HAVE A POSITION. IF YOU TELL US TO DO X WE WILL DO IT. BE CLEAR. WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO ALSO ADVISE YOU . I'VE WORKED IN CITIES WHERE THEY GIVE AMNESTY FOR NONCONFORMING THINGS. FOR THOSE THINGS ILLEGALLY BUILT. I WANT TO DIFFERENTIATE WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE. IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BAD ACTORS WHO DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO APPLY THE LAW OR KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING I DON'T WANT TO CONFLATE THAT. THERE IS ONE THING THAT STAFF DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF NONCONFORMITY. I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE I WASN'T INVOLVED BUT I'M VERY CLEAR AND I LIKE TO THINK THE STAFF WE HAVE HERE NOW IS VERY CLEAR ON THE PREMISE OF EXISTING NONCONFORMITY IN THE STATUS IT GRANTS YOU. IT IS ALREADY THERE. SAYING I BUILT SOMETHING LEGALLY AND THE CITY CAME BACK AND TRIED TO ENFORCE THINGS INCORRECT THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE A CITY MANAGER AND YOU BEAT UP ON ME. STAFF IS NOT DOING THEIR JOB BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO APPLY THE LAW. THOSE PROTECTIONS ARE ALREADY THERE. THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN SAYING PEOPLE WHO BUILT THE STRUCTURE THAT WAS LEGALLY REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A PERMIT AND WE WANT TO GRANT THEM AMNESTY. THOSE ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS AND THEY GIVE DIFFERENT SOLUTIONS. IF STAFF DIDN'T DO A GOOD JOB SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE YOU CAN [00:55:07] COME IN AND ADDRESS THAT WITH ME AND HOPEFULLY BEGET IT FIXED. IN TERMS OF PROTECTIONS OF LAWS ON THE BOOKS NOW IF WE WANT TO SAY RESET EVEN IF YOU WERE REQUIRED TO OBTAIN A PERMIT THAT YOU CHOSE NOT TO OR DID NOT TO FOR WHATEVER REASON IT IS NOT FOR ME TO JUDGE. IGNORANCE OF THE LAW HAS NO RELIEF. THIS IS THE POLICY DECISIONS. IF YOU WANT TO SAY THAT THAT THIS IS A BLANKET AMNESTY THEN YOU CREATE A SIGNIFICANT ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN ON US THAT WILL EFFECTIVELY SAY WE ARE NOT GOING TO ENFORCE ANY PERMIT REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE IT BECOMES IMPRACTICABLE AND NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO CONTINUE TO DO. WHAT HAPPENS WHEN COREY SAYS LET'S SAY TODAY IS THE DAY. AMNESTY FROM TODAY FORTH ANYTHING ERECTED WITH A PERMIT OR WITHOUT IS NOW CONSIDERED EXISTING NONCONFORMING. CODES SIX MONTHS FROM NOW THEY THINK FROM WHAT THEIR QUICK RESEARCH SHOWS HOW DO THEY SPEND RESTORING TO CLARIFY BECAUSE YOU GET THE LAW OF DIMINISHED RETURNS BECAUSE THEY HAVE OTHER THINGS THEY WANT TO ATTEND TO. IF THEY HAVE TO SPEND AN HOUR RESEARCHING SIX MONTHS AGO OR NOT IT IS NOT PRACTICAL FOR THEM TO DO IT WHEN THEY'VE GOT THE PRESSURE OF DILAPIDATED STRUCTURES AND THINGS VISIBLY MUCH MORE PRESSING AND APPARENT. IT BECOMES THIS THING WHERE WE CAN'T ENFORCE THAT AND WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN? THERE IS A SHED ILLEGALLY . THAT IS A CONCLUSION EVERY STATEMENT BUT THAT IS WHAT STARTS TO HAPPEN. FOR US IT BECOMES MORE DIFFICULT. . WE CAN GO BACK TO GOOGLE EARTH OR WHEN YOU PUT THE BURDEN BACK ON THE PRESIDENT YOU'VE GOT TO PROVE IT. I DON'T HAVE ANY PROOF. WHY WOULD I? THE CONTRACTOR DID IT. YOU CREATE THIS VERIFICATION BURDEN MUCH LIKE RENTAL ASSISTANCE VERIFICATION OR INCOME VERIFICATION OR OTHER THINGS THAT REQUIRE A GREAT DEAL OF ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN. MY ONLY SPEAKING AGAINST IT IS TO GIVE YOU THE INFORMATION THAT IF YOU DECIDE TO SEND US DOWN WE WILL GO OVER YOU TELL US BUT UNDERSTAND THERE IS A CONSEQUENCE. ARE WE TRYING TO SELL FOR SOMETHING THAT SOLVES ITSELF NATURALLY? IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO DID THE RIGHT THING , OBEY THE LAWS IN EFFECT AT THE TIME, DID WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS BEST BECAUSE IT WAS LEGAL THE LAW CHANGED AND YOU HAD A BACK ACTING CITY EMPLOYEE WHO DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO FOLLOW THE LAWS, THAT'S DIFFERENT. >> LET ME ANSWER. I'M NOT IMPLYING THERE'S ANY BAD ACTORS. I'M NOT ASKING FOR BLANKET AMNESTY. I'M ASKING FOR A POLICY ON AMNESTY WHERE RESIDENTS CAN APPLY. >> YOU CREATE AN ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN THAT IS SO HEAVY IT CREATED A PASTOR. IT BECOMES VERY DIFFICULT. IT COULD BECOME VERY DIFFICULT. IF YOU TELL US YOU WANT TO DO IT THAT'S POSSIBLE. >> IS THE INTENTION TO SEEK AMNESTY AND OTHER SAFETY REQUIREMENTS SUCH AS SETBACK ISSUES AND THOSE THINGS? THE SPECIFIC INSTANCE AT LEAST I KNOW IN MY HEAD I BELIEVE WASN'T RELATED. IT WAS NONCONFORMING EVEN THOUGH THERE WERE IMPROVEMENTS MADE TO THE STRUCTURE. THE BIGGER ISSUE WAS THE SETBACK VIOLATION AND SOME OTHER ISSUES PERTAINING TO THAT AND THE STRUCTURE NOT BEEN PROPERLY CONSTRUCTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH NATIONAL BUILDING CODE. I THINK THAT ISSUE EVEN WITH AMNESTY WOULD STILL TODAY BE AN ISSUE FOR THAT ONE PARTICULAR CASE. IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A SIMILAR CASE. >> WE HAVE A PLACE RIGHT NOW SOMEBODY TODAY CAME IN AND BUILT THEIR SHED IN 2018. THIS IS THAT TOP THING RIGHT UP THERE. IT WOULD BE DOUBLE THE PERMIT FEES CURRENTLY . THAT IS WHERE ALL THESE THINGS WOULD BE [01:00:05] ADDRESSED. IF IT IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE LEGAL THEN I THINK THE BIGGER ISSUE IS TO YOUR POINT IF IT IS A SETBACK AND EXISTS THAT -- >> THAT IS DIFFERENT. >> THERE IS REMEDY FOR THAT. THEY MAY BE ABLE TO APPLY FOR A VARIANCE. THOSE PROCEDURES EXIST CURRENTLY TO DEAL WITH THESE ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS IF THAT IS THE INTENT. WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE BUT THOSE PROCESSES ARE IN PLACE TODAY AND I THINK THAT HAPPENS. IT IS WHEN THERE IS AN ISSUE OF IT BEING BUILT AND DIDN'T CONFORM WITH THE REQUIREMENTS. >> LET ME STOP BECAUSE THIS IS NOT A CONVERSATION WE ARE DRIVING. I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE GIVE THIS TO YOU ESPECIALLY THAT WHATEVER THE SOLUTION IS YOU WANT TO PROPOSE IF THAT IS WHAT THE COUNCIL WANTS TO DO I FEEL WE HAVE MINOR OBLIGATION TO INFORM THE COUNCIL THERE CAN BE PITFALLS. >> I THINK I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE SPECIFIC ISSUE AND ANY SUBSEQUENT RESOLUTION FOR THE FUTURE TO THAT ISSUE AND IF THAT CAN EVEN BE POSSIBLE FOR THIS PARTICULAR CASE? IF WE ARE THINKING ABOUT THE SAME CASE THEN EVEN IF WE WERE TO PROVIDE RIGHTS TO THESE STRUCTURES THAT PARTICULAR INSTANCE WOULD STILL NOT MEET THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS WHICH WOULD INSTITUTE A WHOLE OTHER PROCESS SO THEY WOULDN'T SKIRT BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR PUTTING THAT SETBACK EVEN WITH WHAT WOULD BE APPLIED. I THINK THE POINT OF ME SAYING THAT IS THIS GOING TO SOLVE THE ISSUE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OR DOES THIS NOT GO AS FAR AS WHERE WE WANT TO GO? >> YOU ARE JUST TALKING ABOUT A PERMIT LABOR AND THE OTHER INSTANCE WERE TALKING ABOUT COMPLETELY CONSIDERING IT TO BE A LEGAL NONCONFORMING STRUCTURE. THAT WOULD MEAN IT MEETS ALL THE REQUIREMENTS OF SETBACK. THAT IS THE DISTINCT YOU NEED TO FOCUS ON. I YOU LOOKING AT WAVING A PERMIT REQUIREMENT? ARE YOU GOING TO GRANT LEGAL NONCONFORMING STATUS? >> DO WE EVEN HAVE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT? >> IN THAT PARTICULAR CASE MY UNDERSTANDING IS NO ORDINANCE AND REQUIREMENT FOR THE SETBACK WAS IF THE SETBACK IS THE ISSUE TODAY . >> I'M GOING BACK IN MY MEMORY HERE. THAT PARTICULAR CASE IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY IS THERE WAS SOME FAULT ON THE CITY FOR NOT COMMUNICATING PROPERLY AND NOT GOING OUT TO ACTUALLY SEE WHAT WAS PROPOSED TO BE BUILT BECAUSE THEY WOULD SEE IT WENT WITHIN A SETBACK. IT WASN'T LEGALLY NONCONFORMING OR DIDN'T COMPLY WITH THE LAWS THEN THAT STAFF AT THE TIME 18 YEARS AGO WHO GAVE HIM THAT ADVICE TIP A SHED IN A SETBACK . >> THERE IS A VARIANCE PROCESS. FOR US STAFF WANTS TO PAUSE OUR CONVERSATION AND REALLY HEAR WHAT IT IS WE ARE TRYING TO SOLVE FOR. WE ARE TRYING TO HELP YOU SOLVE FOR. WE ARE HERE TO FACILITATE. >> I'M NOT CLEAR ON WHAT WE ARE SOLVING FOR. SOMEONE WHO APPLIED FOR A PERMIT THEY WERE REQUIRED TO APPLY FOR OR CAME IN AND SAID GIVE ME ADVICE AND I NEED A PERMIT AND THEY WERE TOLD NO YOU DON'T BASED ON WHAT INFORMATION? IT'S HARD TO GO BACK BECAUSE IT FEELS LIKE HE SAID SHE SAID. I WANT TO TAKE A PERSONAL SITUATION AND UNDERSTAND WHAT FACTORS WE ARE TRYING TO SOLVE OR IF IT IS SOMEONE WERE TO COME INTO THE CITY AND GET MAD INFORMATION THAT IS GOING TO BE POSSIBLE. WE CAN TAKE PEOPLE AS WE TRY TO [01:05:03] SOLVE FOR THOSE THINGS. THERE'S A NUMBER OF THINGS WE TRY TO DO TO RECTIFY THAT. WE TRY TO DO TO THE EXTENT AND TRY TO MAKE IT RIGHT IF THAT'S WHAT WE TRY TO SOLVE. >> THE ISSUE IN THIS CASE WAS THE CITY DID NOT COMMUNICATE PROPERLY WITH THIS INDIVIDUAL AND GAVE BAD ADVICE WHICH LED THEM TO BUILD SOMETHING ILLEGAL. >> IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS UNFAIR TO THIS PERSON AND IT IS UNFORTUNATE BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S AN ISSUE NOW. THIS PARTICULAR THING WAS IN THE SETBACK BUT WAS BUILT PRIOR TO THE 500 SQUARE-FOOT OR LESS STRUCTURES. IT WAS NONCONFORMING FOR THAT PARTICULAR INSTANCE BUT NOT A SETBACK ISSUE. >> IT WASN'T REQUIRED TO HAVE A PERMIT WHICH IN MY MIND THEN NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE REQUIREMENTS. IF IT WAS EXEMPTED TO EXEMPT FROM OR THE RULES. >> I DON'T THINK STAFF AT THE TIME UNDERSTOOD. THEY SET HIM UP TO FAIL. SHAME ON THE STAFF FOR DOING THAT. >> I HEAR YOU. >> I DON'T KNOW THERE IS AN ISSUE TO RESOLVE. >> I'M TRYING UNDERSTAND WE GET PROPER INPUT. WHAT ARE WE SOLVING FOR? >> WITH THAT INSTANCE I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY SOLUTION TO THAT ONE PROBLEM. >> IF A PARTICULAR ISSUE LIKE THAT WORKS ITS WAY THROUGH THE VARIANCE PROCESS IS THERE A WAY FOR THE COUNCIL TO ALLOW FOR THAT ITEM TO BE RECONSIDERED? >> THERE IS NOT AN APPEAL. >> IF THE DECISIONS OF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT ARE THERE YEAH. >> MY BIG CONCERN IS THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. IT'S HIGH COST AND NO GUARANTEE THEY WOULD GET WHAT THEY ARE SEEKING THROUGH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS. >> THEY DIDN'T. >> TO YOUR QUESTION IF I CAN JUMP IN WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO SOLVE FOR AND THIS IS A COMPLEX ISSUE AND I GET ALL THAT AND INDIVIDUAL SITUATIONS. I'M LOOKING REALLY FOR PEOPLE WHO KNOW THEY ARE NOT CONFORMING OR WANT TO BE CONFORMING AND AFRAID TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS. I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT HAVE DONE STUFF THAT WOULD IN HINDSIGHT LIKE TO BE CONFORMING BUT THEY HATE THE IDEA IF I LET THEM KNOW THEY WILL BE OVER HERE WHAT AM I RISKING ? ARE GOING TO MAKE ME TEAR IT DOWN. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO THAT. IT'S THIS GENTLE APPROACH. I STILL THINK IT NEEDS TO BE ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS THAT MAY BE >> DOESN'T THAT ALREADY EXIST? >> I GUESS IT IS SORT OF THAT ATTITUDE THAT MAYBE >> I THINK THIS IS WHEN IT IS DEAL WITH IT. MAYBE THAT IS THE PROCESS AND WHAT IT IS. THE REALITY IS ANYTIME THESE ISSUES COME BACK TO COUNCIL IN A RETROACTIVE CASE I THINK NEVER HAS IT BEEN THEY DID IT THEMSELVES. IT'S BECAUSE ONE OF THEIR NEIGHBORS CALLED IT IN, THERE IS A NEIGHBOR DISPUTE AND IT IS LIKE EVERY CASE. IT IS CODE THAT ENDS UP SAYING WE HAVE TO DO OUR JOB THEY ARE NOT OUT THERE DRIVING AROUND LOOKING FOR NONCONFORMING. THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER PRESSING ISSUES WAY MORE IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT 99.99 OR 100% OF THE TIME THIS IS A NEIGHBOR THAT IS UPSET AND THE OTHER NEIGHBOR NEXT DOOR AND IT IS PETTY BUT THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS. THAT HAS BEEN THE LAST TWO OR THREE CASES. THAT EXACT SCENARIO. THERE IS A PROCESS FOR THAT. WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN [01:10:06] CAUGHT AND YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT. I THINK IN EVERY CASE EXCEPT FOR THE ONE CASE WHERE IT VIOLATES THE SETBACK EVERY OTHER CASE COUNCIL HAS GRANTED THE ALLOWANCE FOR THAT STRUCTURE. >> I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION. CAN YOU EXPLAIN IF THERE ARE HAZARDS ASSOCIATED WITH THE SETBACK? I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T EVEN REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT A SETBACK IS AND WHAT IS A SETBACK EXIST? IF YOU ALLOW BUILDINGS TO BE IN THE SETBACK WHAT IS THE RISK? >> YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SEPARATION AND COMBUSTIBLE MATERIALS. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT SEPARATION >> LINE OF SIGHT. GENERALLY. >> WAS THEN A SETBACK AND VARIANCE THE CITY WILL REQUIRE AN ENHANCED RATING BECAUSE OF THAT FIRE HAZARD. >> THE BOARD MAKES THE FINAL DECISION. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M BEING CLEAR. THE COUNCIL WANTS TO GRANT AMNESTY I'M NOT GOING TO. IF IT'S 2019 , THAT IS WHAT IT IS. GRANT IT. WE DON'T HAVE A DOG IN A FIGHT. I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS THAT WE GET YOU INFORMATION AND ADVICE. IF IT IS THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T KNOW THE LAW EXISTED AND PUT SOMETHING ELSE UP THERE IS A PROCESS FOR THAT. IF IT IS EVEN IF YOU GO THROUGH THE PROCESS THERE'S NO GUARANTEE YOU DON'T WANT US DOING ANYTHING . WHAT IS THE VALUE? THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE AN ADJUSTMENT SO THE PEERS CAN SAY YES OR NO. IF I CAN GET MORE CLEAR ON WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO SELL FOR I AM NOT QUITE SURE. IF IT'S WE DON'T LIKE THE REGULATION CHANGE IT . IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE COST TELL US AND WE CHANGE IT. >> FOR THE RECORD FOR CALLING AMNESTY OR WHATEVER I PURPOSELY AM FOR THE COUNCIL ALLOWING SOME RELIEF RETROACTIVELY NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF A HAZARD OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT BUT TO GIVE THE CITIZENS RELIEF. >> JUST DOING AWAY WITH THE DOUBLE PERMIT OR SOMETHING? >> WE'VE SAID ENOUGH. >> ACE ON ALL DISCUSSION HOW DO YOU ACCOMPLISH THAT? WHAT IS THE MECHANISM TO DO THAT TO PROVIDE THAT RELIEF WITHOUT BEING A BLANKET AMNESTY? ALL THE CONVERSATIONS I HAVE HAD WITH A RESIDENT IN PARTICULAR MY UNDERSTANDING IS IT WAS A MORE TARGETED APPROACH TO RESOLVE THAT ISSUE OR ISSUES LIKE THAT NOT A BLANKET. >> I'M ASKING FOR SOME RELIEF THAT A CITIZEN CAN APPLY FOR. IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT AMNESTY MAYBE IT IS SELECTIVE WHERE THE CITIZEN HAS TO APPLY TO BE CONSIDERED FOR RELIEF. >> IF YOU BUILD A PROCESS BY WHICH SOMEONE CAN APPLY FOR RELIEF YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SEPARATE CRITERIA THAT SAYS THIS IS WHERE THEY WOULD AND WOULDN'T SO WHAT DOES THAT CRITERIA LOOK LIKE? THAT IS THE RABBIT TRAIL OF HOW TO DETERMINE ONE PERSON DOES AND ANOTHER DOESN'T. ON THE EARLIER SLIDE ONE THING POINTED OUT WAS THE EQUITY WITH PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE ALREADY APPLIED FOR A PERMIT OR THINGS LIKE THAT. THAT IS SOMETHING I HAD NOT CONSIDERED. THAT IS A POINT OF CONSIDERATION. YOU WILL GET PEOPLE WHO COME TO YOU AND SAY I WENT THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND SPENT MY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OR WHATEVER POTENTIALLY. WHAT ABOUT ME? THAT IS A TOUGH ONE. >> THEY ARE GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS AT A TIME WHEN THERE ISN'T A PERMIT REQUIRED BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHEN THERE WASN'T. >> THIS IS A ONE-OFF CASE THAT WE CAN'T JUST CHANGE IN ORDINANCE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK FOR ONE SINGULAR PERSON. THERE ARE VERY SPECIFIC ISSUES WITH THAT ONE INDIVIDUAL CASE. IF WE CHANGED AN ENTIRE ORDINANCE BECAUSE ONE PERSON GOT SCREWED BECAUSE THE PROCESS [01:15:04] DIDN'T WORK FOR THEM BECAUSE THE CITY MESSED UP ON OUR AND 18 YEARS AGO THAT I FOR THE PRESIDENT CREATES GOING FORWARD TO OTHER ISSUES I THINK WE HAVE TO BE A LOT MORE STRATEGIC ON THIS . MAYBE ALLOW SOME COUNCILMEMBERS TIME TO THINK ABOUT WHAT IT IS WE ARE REALLY TRYING TO SELL FOR AND THEN COME BACK IF WE HAVE COME UP WITH AN IDEA OF WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO SELL FOR HERE AND NOT JUST HAVE THIS BLANKET VESTIGE THAT IS WITHOUT IMPACTING OTHER LAWS THAT WOULD REALLY MAKE THINGS COMPLICATED AND NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO FORCE OR UNDERSTAND . MAYBE THIS IS LET'S GO BACK AND TRY TO FIND SOME OTHER IDEAS. I DON'T KNOW. >> THE LAST I WILL SAY UNLESS ASKED OTHERWISE YOU REALLY HAVE TWO CHOICES. IN MY OPINION. THAT WHICH IS ALREADY A VARIANCE TO NOT KNOWING THERE WAS A REGULATION . YOU GET JUDGED BY YOUR PEERS, NOT THE STAFF. YOU DO NOT WANT US JUDGING THAT BECAUSE IT'S THEY DIDN'T LIKE ME. WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THAT POSITION. THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE CITIZENS DO THAT. IT IS 250. THAT'S RIGHT. THAT IS BASED ON THE SIZE. THE OTHER THING IS AMNESTY. THERE WAS ALREADY A PROCESS IN PLACE TO RESOLVE THE QUESTION OF PLAIN ERROR, BAD INFORMATION FROM STAFF. YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO GO THROUGH THE PATHWAY. NO MATTER WHO GAVE YOU THE INFORMATION EVEN IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW YOU AFFORDED THE OPPORTUNITY. STAFF GIVES YOU BAD INFORMATION AND YOU ARE AFFORDED THE OPPORTUNITY. I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ARE CLEAR THAT EXISTS. IT DOESN'T GUARANTEE YOU AN OUTCOME BUT IF YOU GUARANTEE AN OUTCOME THAT IS CALLED AMNESTY. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU HAVE US RUBBERSTAMPING DOCUMENTS OR PASS A RESOLUTION. IT'S AMNESTY. I WOULD ASK YOU TO PASS THE RESOLUTION BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU CREATE A BUNCH OF WORK FOR US THAT WILL RUBBERSTAMP SOMETHING ANYWAY OR IF YOU GENERALLY WANT RELIEF OPPORTUNITIES FOR RESIDENTS WHO MAY HAVE BEEN AN ERROR OR A KNOWLEDGEABLE OR MISINFORMED BY US OR BY WHOMEVER THAT ALREADY EXISTS JUST WITHOUT A GUARANTEED OUTCOME. >> OKAY. I GUESS I CAN GO AROUND AND GET A TALLY. OPTION ONE IS TO CONTINUE WITH THE CURRENT PROCESS. OPTION TWO WOULD BE TO ADOPT OR MOVE FORWARD IN A FUTURE MEETING TO ADOPT RESOLUTION GRANTING VESTIGE OR AMNESTY FOR THESE STRUCTURES. WE WILL START HERE. OKAY. IS THAT -- OKAY, SORRY. >> YEAH. I GUESS I'M LEANING FOR A LOT OF REASONS TO THE CURRENT PROCESS MAYBE MAKE IT FRIENDLY BUT MAKE IT MORE TRANSPARENT. I DON'T KNOW THAT ALL CITIZENS KNOW THIS IS AVAILABLE. WE CAN ALWAYS IMPROVE EDUCATION. THERE'S NO QUESTION OF THAT. WE THINK IT'S NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION WE CAN ALWAYS WORK ON THAT. WE SHOULD BE TELLING PEOPLE THAT ANYWAY. BUT TO YOUR POINT WE CAN CREATE VIDEOS . WE CAN DO ALL OF THAT. WE CAN DO ALL OF THAT. >> I THINK THE CITY WILL UNDERSTAND BEFORE 2019 WHEN THEY GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND IF I'M UNDERSTANDING AS LONG AS THERE IS NOT A LEGAL FAULT THAT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING. IF IT IS A LEGAL ISSUE THAT IS BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THIS BUT IF IT IS ONE OF THESE OTHER THINGS AND BUILT 40 YEARS AGO LET ME HELP YOU. IF IT WAS BEFORE 2019 AND ON A PERMIT REQUIREMENT THERE'S NOTHING. >> THEY ARE GOOD. I GUESS IN A LOT OF WAYS THAT ADDRESSES YOUR CONCERN IS IF IT IS BEFORE 2019 IF THAT'S RIGHT. [01:20:03] >> IF NO PERMIT REQUIREMENT CAN ESTABLISH THIS WAS BUILT BEFORE 2019 THEY HAVE PROTECTION. IT HAS TO BE LEGAL NONCONFORMING MEANING IT WAS LEGAL AT THE TIME CONSTRUCT. >> IF YOU WEREN'T REQUIRED TO HAVE A PERMIT YOU DIDN'T HAVE THOSE REQUIREENTS. GENERALLY. GENERALLY. THE POINT IS THAT'S WHY DON'T WANT TO QUIBBLE OVER THE REQUIREMENT ITSELF BUT THE FACT WOULD BE EXISTING NONCONFORMING. YOU WOULD HAVE THE STATUS WHICH IMPLIES WHATEVER THE REQUIREMENTS WERE BECAUSE WE CAN'T QUOTE THEM NOW AT THE TIME YOU WERE CONSTRUCTED. IF YOU WERE LEGAL AT THE TIME WHATEVER REGULATIONS WERE IN FORCE AT THAT TIME YOU ARE GOOD. I DON'T WANT TO CONFLATE THE MISAPPLICATION OR ERROR ON PART OF STAFF WITH THE FACT REGULATIONS AND PROTECTIONS DON'T EXIST. THEY DO. IF THAT IS WHAT WE ARE ADDRESSING. IT'S NOT FOR ME TO SAY WHAT WE TRY TO ADDRESS. IF WE TRY TO ADDRESS SOMEONE DIDN'T HAVE TO HAVE A PERMIT AND THEN TRY TO MAKE THEM GET A PERMIT MAYBE WE MISAPPLIED REGULATIONS. I DON'T KNOW. >> IF THIS IS THE CASE I WAS INVOLVED IN WE DID. I DON'T KNOW THOUGH WHICH ONE. BUT WE DID IN MANY WAYS. YOU KNOW. >> THE PROCESS. >> I REALLY WANT TO SOLVE THIS ISSUE FOR THIS INDIVIDUAL. AT THE EXPENSE OF A BLANKET ABANDONMENT OF A PROCESS THAT WE HAVE TO ME IT OPENS US UP FOR FAR GREATER ISSUES THAN THIS ONE ISSUE IS CAUSING IN AND OF ITSELF. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US COME BACK AND PUT OUR HEADS TOGETHER AGAIN TO FIGURE THIS OUT. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS ANOTHER OPTION. >> I'M NOT SURE WHAT WE ARE FIGURING OUT. >> THIS WAS A SETBACK ISSUE. >> ONE PARTICULAR CASE? LET'S TALK OFF-LINE AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO. I THINK THAT'S WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN. >> I WANT TO SEE THAT ISSUE SOLVED. NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF COMPLETELY ABANDONING THE PROCESS WE HAVE IN PLACE. WITHOUT THAT STRUCTURE IT IS KIND OF A FREE-FOR-ALL. >> I WOULD LIKE FOR IT TO BE SOLVED TO DO THE AMNESTY THING. ACTUALLY WE DIDN'T HAVE A REQUIREMENT FOR A PERMIT BEFORE. THINGS SEEMED TO WORK PRETTY WELL . WE HAVE TRIED FOR TWO YEARS TO SOLVE THIS OF GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS WHICH WE ALREADY HAD. NONE WERE ABLE TO DO IT SO I'M GOING TO SAY ON FOR AMNESTY. >> DID THIS GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND GO BEFORE THE BOARD? >> NOT A PERMIT. >> WHAT WAS THE BOARD'S DECISION? >> THEY RULED AGAINST. >> IT HAD TO BE AFFORDED TO. >> THAT'S RIGHT. IT WAS IN FAVOR OF GRANTING IT. OKAY. >> IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S FOUR FOR THE CURRENT PROCESS, THREE FOR THE AMNESTY PROCESS. WE WIL CONTINUE UNLESS -- LET'S HAVE THE OTHER DISCUSSION. ANY OF Y'ALL CAN HAVE THAT DISCUSSION ABOUT THE SETBACK ISSUE WITH THAT PARTICULAR CASE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON. OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY. I HAVE TO SAY , YOU CAN STILL COMPEL A VOTE AT COUNCIL LEVEL. THIS WAS TO GIVE AN IDEA OF HOW THE TALLY MAY GO . YOU'RE STILL WELCOME TO PLACE IT ON AN AGENDA FOR A CONSIDERATION ITEM AND COMPEL A VOTE IF YOU WISH TO DO THAT. THIS WAS JUST TO GIVE Y'ALL THE IDEA OF WHERE THAT VOTE ACTUALLY LANDS. WITH THAT HE WILL MOVE ON -- WHERE ARE WE [3D. Consider action to approve an ordinance amending Section 78 Article X of the Code of Ordinances regarding the maximum fence height on double frontage lots. (30 minutes) ] [01:25:05] AT? ITEM 3-D , CONSIDER ACTION TO APPROVE AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 78 ARTICLE X OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES REGARDING THE MAXIMUM FENCE HEIGHT ON DOUBLE FRONTAGE LOTS. >> WE WILL TALK ABOUT NONCONFORMITY SOME MORE. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. IT COMES TO A REQUEST FOR REGULATIONS SPECIFIC TO FENCING ON DOUBLE FRONTAGE LAWNS WHICH I WILL GET TO. THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION WAS INITIATED DUE TO SOMEBODY WHO HAS OFFENSE ON THE REAR YARD. THEY TOOK DOWN FOR WHATEVER REASON AND WANTED TO REPLACE THE FENCE FOUR FOOT TALL. IT WAS NOT ALLOWED BECAUSE OF THE CURRENT CODE WHICH HAS A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF 36 AND IT WAS ONE OF THE REAR YARD DOUBLE FRONTAGE LOTS. THERE ARE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT RELATE TO KEY LOTS WHICH IS ANOTHER STRANGE TYPE OF LOT. THIS GRAPHIC HERE I WILL OUTLINE FOR YOU WHAT YOU CAN KIND OF SEE YOUR TRADITIONAL THAT FACES EACH OTHER. THEN TOWARDS THE DOUBLE FRONTAGE LOT. THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THE DOUBLE FRONTAGE LOT AND WHY THEY HAVE THIS REQUIREMENT IS AS YOU CAN SEE THAT WE'RE YARD OF THE DOUBLE FRONTAGE LOT IS THE FRONT YARD OF THE ONE JUST TO THE LEFT. THERE ARE OFTEN THEM STRICTER REQUIREMENTS ON THAT. YOU DON'T WANT NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE NEIGHBORS AND THAT SORT OF THING. THIS IS JUST WHERE THE BACKYARD FACES THE SIDE YARD BEHIND IT. IT'S NOT ACTUALLY A GREAT EXAMPLE. THESE ARE JUST A COUPLE DIFFERENT CASES THAT HAVE COME FORWARD THIS YEAR. THE ONE ON THE LEFT IS SPECIFICALLY THE ONE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHERE THERE IS A REAR YARD. THE YARD ON THAT ONE FACES THE CUL-DE-SAC THERE. THAT ENTIRE ROW OF HOUSES -- I DON'T KNOW THE DIRECTIONAL. ON THE TOP SITE ARE ALL DOUBLE FRONTAGE FACES. THAT IS AN INSTANCE WHERE THERE'S NOT PROTECTIONS IN PLACE THAT ALLOW FOR SOMEBODY TO REINSTALL. THIS GIVES SOME EXAMPLES. THERE ARE A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF HOMES ON DOUBLE FRONTAGE LOTS THROUGHOUT THE CITY AND SURROUNDING CITIES. THIS IS JUST TO GIVE AN IDEA OF IF WE WERE TO AMEND THE ORDINANCE SO PEOPLE COULD REINSTALL IN 16 NONCONFORMING FENCE AND MAYBE THE SAME OR BETTER MATERIALS THIS IS WHAT YOU WOULD CONTINUE TO SEE AROUND TOWN ALONG THOSE ROADS. THIS WAS A KEY LOT. IT IS A SEMI-RELATED ISSUE BUT THE HOME THEIR BACKS UP TO THE DRIVEWAY RIGHT NOW. IT IS NONCONFORMING AND HAS A SIX-FOOT TALL FENCE ON THE SIDE YARD BUT ALSO EXTENDS OUT TO THE SETBACK. WHEN YOU HAVE THESE LOTS TYPICALLY THE DOUBLE FRONTAGE YOU OR SIDE YARD ON THIS KEY CORNER LOT WHEN YOU TREAT IT AS THOUGH THEY WERE FRONT YARDS FOR SETBACK PURPOSES IT PULLS IN QUITE A BIT. IF THERE WERE TO BE AN ORDINANCE CHANGE YOU NEED TO SPECIFY IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT FENCE HEIGHT OR THE REINSTALLATION OF OFFENSE OR IF IT IS IN THE REQUIRED FRONT YARD SETBACK. DO WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO LET THIS TAKE PLACE OR ARE WE ONLY TALKING ABOUT FENCE HEIGHT IN TERMS OF REINSTALLING OFFENSE AT THE SAME HEIGHT. THIS IS A PICTURE TO SHOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IF YOU WERE TO TRANSITION A HOUSE INTO COMPLIANCE IF THEY WERE TO TAKE OUT OFFENSE AND PUT A NEW ONE BACK UP IF YOU LOOK IN THE LEFT PICTURE ON THE BOTTOM IS A KEY LOT . THEY HAVE BROUGHT THEIR FENCE ALL THE WAY INTO THE REAR YARD. THEY COMPLIED WITH THAT FRONT YARD SETBACK BUT THEY ARE ABLE TO HAVE A PRIVACY FENCE SO THE DOUBLE FRONTAGE LOT IS DIFFERENT IN THE BACK FENCING WOULD STILL BE REQUIRED TO BE UNDER THE CURRENT ORDINANCE. JUST TO KIND OF RUN THROUGH IT ARE ORDINANCE ONLY ALLOWS FOR MINOR REPAIRS. MAINTENANCE AND REPAIRS NOT FOR FULL FENCE REINSTALLATION . I WILL SAY IN THE NONCONFORMITY [01:30:08] SECTION IT REALLY SPELLS OUT TO OVER THAT. I WILL READ IT IN MY OWN WORDS . WHILE CONFORMITY'S MAY CONTINUE THIS CHAPTER IS TO PROTECT AND BRING ABOUT THEIR EVENTUAL ELIMINATION IN ORDER TO PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY OF THIS CODE. THAT IS JUST TO KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT NONCONFORMING. >> THE IDEA WAS TO EVENTUALLY OVER TIME BRING THOSE. >> CORRECT. IF YOU ARE TO MAKE A CHANGE TO THE ORDINANCE TO ALLOW US TO HANDLE THOSE NONCONFORMITIES ON SPECIFIC DEFENSES IT COULD EASILY BE SPELLED OUT TO WHATEVER REINSTALLATION YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH. >> THE REASON FOR NOT ALLOWING THE FENCE FOR REQUIRING THE FRONT YARD IS THAT PURELY AESTHETIC? >> A LOT OF TIME YOU HAVE THIS SITUATION WHERE THE BACK OF THE DOUBLE FRONTAGE LOT IS THE SIDE OR EVEN BETWEEN TWO FRONT YARDS OR MAYBE THEY BOUGHT THOSE FRONT AND BACK TO HAVE ONE REALLY BIG LOT. YOU MAY NOT WANT A EIGHT-FOOT PIRACY FENCE BETWEEN TWO FRONT YARDS. A NORMAL FRONT YARD SETBACK IS SUFFICIENT IN THAT CASE. YOU'VE GOT WHATEVER SETBACK REQUIRED FURTHER THAN THAT. RIGHT NOW IT TREATS THE ENTIRE SECTION AS A FRONT YARD. IF THEY HAVE OFFENSE THEY ARE JUST NOT CONFORMING THE FENCES. THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE A LOT MORE OF ON THE LEFT SIDE WHERE THEY ARE JUST IN A FULL ROW. >> THE ANSWER IS YES. HE TALKED ABOUT THE REASON OF ZONING REGULATIONS. IT'S AESTHETICS. THE CHARACTER OF NEIGHBORHOOD. THAT IS UP TO YOU. >> I CAN UNDERSTAND IT DOESN'T LOOK GREAT. WHAT IF WE JUST REQUIRED A SETBACK BUT STILL ALLOW THEM? TO NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE ANY KIND IN YOUR BACKYARD -- >> LET ME HELP A LITTLE BIT. THIS WAS TO CORY'S POINT AND MAYBE YOU CAN FINISH. IT'S A DIFFICULT CONCEPT. THIS WAS DRIVEN BY YOU HAD AN EXISTING NONCONFORMITY, THE PERSON REMOVED IT, NEEDED ACCESS TO THE REAR YARD AND NOW THE REGULATIONS REQUIRE THEY PUT A DIFFERENT HEIGHTENED FENCE. THE QUESTION ISN'T SIX FEET . IT'S NOT GOING TO BE POSSIBLE TO ADDRESS ALL THOSE VARIANTS. IF I'M MISTAKEN LET ME KNOW. SHOULD YOU BE ALLOWED IF YOU HAVE AN EXISTING NONCONFORMITY IN THIS INSTANCE OF A DOUBLE FRONTAGE LOT BE ABLE TO GO BACK WITH IT OR WITH BETTER MATERIALS? >> I AM THE ONE THAT ASKED TO BRING THIS. IT IS NOT BASED ON ONE PERSON. IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE THE LADY THAT LIVES ON HILLCREST HAS LIVED THERE SINCE 1990 . THEY HAVE SINCE BUILT HOUSES RIGHT ON THE LAKE . SHE HAD REMODELING DONE TO HER HOUSE. THE CONSTRUCTION COMPANY HAD TO TAKE DOWN HER FOUR FOOT CHAIN-LINK FENCE. SHE ASKED FOR A PERMIT TO PUT IN A FOUR FOOT FENCE AND REPLACE THE CHAIN-LINK. SHE WAS DENIED BECAUSE IT HAD TO BE THREE FEET. NOW THE BACKYARD WAS FACING A STREET. SHE'S GOT SEVERAL NEIGHBORS ACROSS THAT STREET THAT WANT TO DO THE SAME THING. SHE'S NOT ASKING FOR A PRIVACY FENCE. SHE'S ASKING FOR A FOUR FOOT FENCE -- >> WHICH LOOKS A LOT BETTER. >> I KNOW THAT COMMONLY EXISTS IN A LOT OF AREAS WHERE OLDER NEIGHBORHOODS EXISTED AND THEN NEWER NEIGHBORHOODS GOT BUILD, STREETS GOT PUT IN. WE HAVE THE SAME SITUATION. SHE IS ASKING TO PUT A FOUR FOOT ROD IRON FENCE. >> THAT'S EASY. >> IF IT WAS LEGAL AT THE TIME OF INSTALLATION THEN THAT SHOULD CARRY FORWARD EVEN IF IT [01:35:01] GETS TAKEN OUT BY HEAVY WIND THEY SHOULD BE PUT BACK. >> YOUR EXPANDING. THAT'S WHY THIS IS A CHANGE IN THE REGULATIONS FOR NONCONFORMING STAFF. >> THAT'S WHY THIS COMES TO US. >> SO YOU ELIMINATE -- IF YOU SAY THE WIND TOOK IT DOWN DOES THAT APPLY TO ACCESSORY STRUCTURE? SURE. >> I WANT TO BE CLEAR. >> IT IS CHANGE YOU CAN REINSTALL ANY EXISTING NONCONFORMING FENCE . I WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M HEARING IT. OKAY. >> IF THE FENCE WAS PUT THERE PRIOR AND LEGAL AT THE TIME THEY EITHER WANT TO PUT A NEW FENCE OR IF IT'S TAKEN OUT. THEY CAN PUT IT IN THE EXACT SAME HEIGHT THEY HAD BEFORE. >> WHATEVER THE REASON. I WAS GOING TO SAY -- >> CAN I GET CLARIFICATION? I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHEN I READ IT. OKAY. YOU ARE SAYING THE FENCE BLOWS DOWN AND THEY BUILD ANOTHER NONCONFORMING FENCE ? >> IT COULD BE IF THEY HAVE A 10 FOOT TALL FENCE IF IT WAS LEGAL AT THE TIME THEY PUT IT UP AND THERE IS A PRESUMPTION IT IS IT WAS DOWN THEY CAN PUT IT BACK. >> I GUESS THE POINT I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING IS THEY CAN REQUEST A VARIANCE THROUGH THE DOA ON A CASE-BY-CASE DECISION? >> IF THE COUNCIL DOESN'T DIRECT US TO CHANGE REGULATION. >> SHE WAS RIGHTLY SO BECAUSE THE CITY HAS TO ABIDE BY REGULATIONS SHE WAS ADVISED SHE COULD GO TO THE BOARD OF JUSTICE. THERE'S NO GUARANTEE. I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE LOGICAL THING. >> IT IS TO: 50. I JUST WANT THE ACCURATE INFORMATION. >> SHE COULD APPLY FOR THE VARIANCE THROUGH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS THAT IS GOING TO COST $250 AND THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS CAN SAY NO? WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO SOLVE FOR HIS WE WANT TO SAY AT THIS LEVEL WE WANT THEM TO BE ABLE TO DO . >> A FOUR FOOT FENCE. >> ARE WE SAYING FOR FEET? >> I THINK -- >> IF IT WAS THERE -- >> MAKE IT SIMPLE. >> I WAS TRYING TO HELP HER MAINTAIN WHAT SHE AND THE OTHER NEIGHBORS HAVE IS A FOUR FOOT -- A FOUR FOOT. >> THERE'S SOME WHO HAVE TALLER FENCES. THEY WOULD THEN BE REQUIRED TO PUT A FOUR FOOT WHICH DOESN'T REPLACE WHAT THEY HAVE. SOME HAVE SIX FEET. >> ARE SAYING IF THERE WAS A FOUR FOOT YOU PUT A FOUR FOOT BACK AND IT CAN CHANGE MATERIALS. >> I WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR. THEIR IMPLICATIONS FOR THAT THAT EVERYONE DOESN'T HAVE A FOUR FOOT TALL FENCE THEY HAVE SIX-FOOT TALL FENCES. ARE YOU SAYING THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK? I'M HELPING YOU OUT. WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IS YOU SEE A FOUR FOOT TALL FENCE AND CITIZEN X IS UPSET BECAUSE THEY HAVE A SIX FOOT TALL. THAT'S NOT WHAT'S BEING SAID. >> I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE MEANT. >> IF THEY HAD AN EXISTING FENCE WHERE IT IS FOUR FOOT OR SIX FOOT AND THEY ARE ON A DUAL FRONTAGE -- THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT I WAS HEARING. >> THIS IS TOTALLY A GENERAL BLANKET. >> THAT'S WHAT THEY HAVE. >> IS ANYBODY CONFUSED? WE LANDED ON ANY FENCE EXISTING THAT IS REMOVED MAY BE REPLACED. >> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. WE WILL JUMP FORWARD. >> ALL RIGHT. WE WILL NOW MOVE [3E. Hold a discussion and receive direction on amending Chapter 22 Article VIII of the Code of Ordinances regarding allowed parking surfaces for vehicles in residential neighborhoods. (30 minutes) ] ON TO ITEM THREE, HOLD A DISCUSSION AND RECEIVE DIRECTION ON AMENDING CHAPTER 22 OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES [01:40:04] REGARDING ALLOWED PARKING SERVICES FOR VEHICLES IN RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. THIS IS COUNCILMEMBER BOWERS. >> WE HAVE A PRESENTATION TO HELP WITH THIS ITEM. >> OKAY. COUNCIL REQUESTS FOR OPTIONS FORGIVE ME IF I'M INCORRECTLY STATING THIS BUT TO EVALUATE PARKING SERVICES. I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH SHE TALKED ABOUT THAT. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. CONSIDERATION FOR THIS PARKING SERVICES SPECIFICALLY WAS OUTLINED BUT WE WILL TALK ABOUT OTHER OPTIONS AS WELL. CURRENTLY THE ONLY SERVICE THROUGHOUT THE CITY. THERE IS ONE EXCEPTION TO THAT ONLY FOR HAULING TRAILERS IN THE REAR YARD AND THAT IS SPECIFIED . IT IS NOT VERY COMMON AROUND THE CITY. APPARENTLY THIS HAS NOT BEEN UPDATED SINCE THEN. IN THE VARIOUS PLANNING AND CONSTRUCTION FIELDS THERE BEEN A LOT OF RECENT STUDIES AND PUBLICATIONS URGING TO CONSIDER OTHER THAN CONCRETE WHICH KIND OF GOES IN LINE PRETTY WELL. THESE ARE A FEW REASONS WHY PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM COMPANIES A LITTLE BIT MORE. IT CAN EXACERBATE STORMWATER RUNOFF. IT CONTRIBUTES TO HEAT AFFECTS AND CONCRETE IS PRETTY EXPENSIVE TO INSTALL. HOWEVER , WHILE WE ARE ENCOURAGED TO MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION IT DOES NOT APPEAR THE CITIES HAVE DONE THAT. THIS IS A LIST PUT TOGETHER PULLING FROM OTHER CITY ORDINANCES AND WHAT THEY REQUIRE FOR PART SERVICES. ALMOST ALL EXCLUSIVELY REQUIRE CONCRETE FOR A COUPLE OF SECTIONS . IF YOU LOOK SPECIFICALLY THEY IDENTIFY GRAVEL THAT IS ONLY FOR REAR YARD AND ONLY FOR OVERSIZED VEHICLES LIKE RVS, BOATS, TRAILERS BUT THEY REQUIRE IT TO BE STABILIZED IN SOME MANNER. THESE ARE A COUPLE OF TRAVEL APPLICATIONS. I SHOULD START BY SAYING WHEN TALKING IN BUILDING INSPECTIONS AND CODE ENFORCEMENT PLANNING AND TALKING ABOUT HOW TO GIVE OPTIONS TO CONSIDER FOR GRAVEL APPLICATIONS FOR PARKING ONE THING THAT KEPT COMING UP WAS THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME WAY TO STABILIZE. SOME EDGING OR SOMETHING THAT KEEPS IT IN PLACE TO PREVENT RUNOFF INTO YARDS, THE STREET AND THAT SORT OF THING TO HELP WITH MAINTENANCE OVER TIME. THIS IS TO GIVE SOME IDEAS OF WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE. WE ARE NOT SAYING THEY WOULD HAVE STONE PAPERS BUT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO WORK UP SOME DETAILS ON THAT. THESE ARE OTHER NON-GRAVEL APPLICATIONS. THERE'S PERMEABLE FAVORS THAT STILL ALLOW WATER TO PENETRATE. THERE'S ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT SYSTEMS YOU CAN PUT IN PLACE THAT ARE NOT ASPHALT OR CONCRETE PAVING BUT COME IN DIFFERENT PAPER TYPE THINGS TO CONSIDER WHEN TALKING ABOUT SPECIFICALLY GRAVEL OR PARKING SURFACES GRAVEL DOES RUN AWAY. I DON'T KNOW ANYONE THAT LIKES GRAVEL FLYING UP AT CARS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. MAINTENANCE CAN BECOME ISSUES. THERE IS JUST WEAR AND TEAR OVER TIME TO WHERE YOU CAN'T EVEN REALLY TELL THERE WAS GRAVEL THERE. IT'S NOT REALLY SUFFICIENT FOR SUPPORTING WEIGHT OF THE VEHICLE SO IT DEPENDS HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL GO IN AND OUT OF THAT PARKING AREA. THERE WILL BE ISSUES WITH GASOLINE AND OIL TO THE GROUND AND BACK TO THE FIRST POINT OF IT BEING TRACKED EASILY ONTO STREETS AND ALLEYWAYS. WE AREN'T SAYING DON'T ALLOW IT BUT JUST TO GIVE SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT IF YOU CHOOSE TO GO THAT ROUTE. THAT IS ALL I HAVE. >> IN RECODE BRALETTE WHEN LOOKING AT DIFFERENT STUFF MOVING FORWARD THIS WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS IN THAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT PERMEABLE PARKING LOTS. I JUST FELT LIKE THIS WAS A MORE TARGETED APPROACH FOR NEIGHBORS THAT DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO USE CONCRETE. I DO THINK IT WOULD REALLY HELP WITH RUNOFF . I [01:45:08] WOULD ABSOLUTELY WANT AND SAY IT IS NECESSARY TO BE CONTAINED AND IS IT MUST BE STRUCTURED. IF WE WOULD NEED TO ADD SOMETHING TO DO ENFORCEMENT IF THERE WERE ISSUES WITH THIS WE CAN DO THAT. I THINK JUST LOOKING AT WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW WITH THIS HARD WATER RUNOFF I THINK IS A GREAT IDEA. RIGHT NOW A LOT OF OUR STREETS WE HAVE TWEAKS WITH ALL THE LEAVES. STORM DRAINS WERE GETTING CLOGGED. IF YOU HAVE AN EXTRA HUNDRED FEET OF SURFACE WATER CAN PENETRATE DOWN TO THE SOIL I THINK THAT IS A GOOD THING. HAVING JUST GONE THROUGH SOME FOUNDATION ISSUES MYSELF I THINK KEEPING OUR SOIL COHESIVE -- WHAT AM I TRYING TO SAY? THERE IS NO WATER UNDER THERE BUT THERE IS WATER OVER HERE. I THINK IT MAKES SENSE. >> IN THE PACKET IT MENTIONS THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY PROPOSING AMENDMENTS THAT WOULD ALLOW PROPERTIES HAVING AN AREA OF ONE ACRE OR GREATER. ARE WE TALKING ALL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES? >> THERE HAS BEEN SOME CLARITY. IF YOU NOTICE THE VERY BROAD SENSE INITIALLY I THINK IT WAS VERY FOCUSED. THIS IS KIND OF THE LARGER CONTEXTUAL CONVERSATION. IT IS THE LARGER CONVERSATION . MAYBE NOW IT IS A QUESTION FOR YOU. DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE SURFACING OF PARKING AREAS? I DON'T KNOW IF WE HIT THE MARK. I THINK I WOULD DEFER TO YOU. YOU REALLY WANT THIS TO APPLY ACROSS THE SPECTRUM. >> WE HAVE TO BE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHICH ONES. YOU DEFINITELY WANT TO GRAVEL. THAT HELPS WITH THAT HEAT ISLAND EFFECT AND ITS STABLES. MAYBE THIS IS BEING MORE ADVANCED THAN OTHER CITIES ARE. WE GET AHEAD OF OTHER CITIES BEING MORE GREEN CONSCIOUS. >> THIS IS SOMETHING I KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT. I WILL JUST SAY ANY KIND OF AGGREGATE EVEN IN THESE PLASTIC CELLS I ABSOLUTELY AM NOT FOR THAT. I AM FOR PERMEABLE SERVICES AND ENVIRONMENTALLY THEY MAKE % SENSE. STRUCTURALLY WELL-DESIGNED ONES MAKE SENSE. I KNOW THIS IS A DISCUSSION HERE. THIS NEEDS TO BE TIGHT. A PERMEABLE SYSTEM, A REAL PERMEABLE SYSTEM THAT SUPPORTS THE VEHICLES AND EVERYTHING YOU WANT TO DO IS GOING TO COST MORE. IT IS A MULTILAYERED SYSTEM AND IS PROBABLY A 30 OR 40% PREMIUM. FOR PEOPLE ENVIRONMENTALLY CONSCIOUS . THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO DO. WHAT I DO NOT WANT TO DO IS OPEN THE DOOR WHERE SOMEBODY PUTS DOWN EDGY HAIR AND A PIECE THAT PUTS TWO INCHES OF GRAVEL OR WHATEVER IT IS. AT THIS POINT THIS WHOLE TERMINOLOGY SEMI PERMEABLE AND ALL OF THESE THINGS IS BIG. IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS COOL ENVIRONMENTAL THING. IT IS THIS HUGE SOUP TO NUTS KIND OF DEAL FOR EVERYTHING ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE TO [01:50:01] STUFF PROBABLY UNAFFORDABLE. YOU GOT THAT RANGE OF THINGS. I DO THINK WE SHOULD NOT ONLY ACTIVELY PROMOTE . THESE ARE THE TYPE OF THINGS I WANT TO SEE. >> WITH THESE PRECLUDE YOU FROM HAVING TO DO ODD SIZES BECAUSE THERE'S NOT AS MUCH? >> IT'S DIFFERENT THINGS. AT THIS POINT I DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW TO SET THIS UP. AS A CITY WE SHOULD EMBRACE SEMIPERMEABLE'S . AS A PRACTICAL MATTER WE ARE BETTER OFF DOING THIS ON SEP WHERE WE CAN ACTUALLY SEE IT . WE CAN SEE AN ENGINEERED SYSTEM OF WHAT THEY WANT TO DO. SHOW US WHAT YOU'VE GOT IN MIND BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY WAYS OF DOING THIS AND SOME ARE REALLY GOOD AND SOME ARE REALLY CHEAP. THEY ARE JUST NOT THE SAME. THAT MIGHT BE ONE WAY TO APPROACH IT BUT I REALLY THINK YOU NEED TO BE PRETTY TIGHT ON HOW YOU DO THIS OR YOU ARE GOING TO SET IT UP AND PUT A PIECE OF FABRIC ON THERE. THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. >> I THINK I WAS VERY CLEAR. THIS HAS TO BE A SYSTEM WELL THOUGHT THROUGH. I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD RANK ORDINANCE. >> I'M NOT BEING FUNNY. YOUR OPINION IS THEY ARE BAD . WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO SOLVE? COST WHILE SOMEHOW BALANCING THE HEAT EFFECT? WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SELL FOR? WE WILL THEN GO TO THE BEST OF OUR UNDERSTANDING. WE WANT TO MEET WHATEVER IT IS YOU'RE TRYING TO GET US TO GO TO. SOME PLACES ACTUALLY DO A LOT. THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH. THAT'S NOT FOR US TO SAY IT IS NOT. ROCKS GOING OUT TO THE FRONT STREET. >> I'M NOT A GRAVEL FAN. >> WE CAN TAILOR IT BUT WE ARE NOT GOING TO SAY WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG. WE WILL GIVE THE INFORMATION LIKE WE DID. WE WILL CERTAINLY TAKE A STAB AT SOMETHING IF THAT'S WHAT WE HEAR. IT DOESN'T MEAN OUR FIRST SHOT WILL BE ACCURATE. YOU CAN DISSECT THAT TO IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT. >> I THINK THIS IS AN INTERESTING CONVERSATION. MAYBE THIS IS WHERE A SUBCOMMITTEE COMES TOGETHER TO THINK ABOUT THIS MORE IN DEPTH IN THINKING ABOUT WHAT SPECIFICALLY WE ARE TRYING TO SOLVE FOR AND HOW WOULD WE SOLVE IT. WHAT ARE THOSE SOLUTIONS WE ARE WILLING TO COMPROMISE ON TO BRING TO OUR ORDINANCES ? >> THAT SOUNDS FINE. THIS IS SOMETHING I FELT WAS AN IMPORTANT INITIATIVE THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH. IF YOU WANT ME TO LEAD A SUBCOMMITTEE ON THAT -- >> YOU CAN HAVE SOME REALLY GOOD CONVERSATIONS . WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO SOLVE FOR ? HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO THAT? WHAT ARE METHODS WE CAN IMPLEMENT BACK TO COUNCIL TO ADOPT ? THERE ARE SOME CONVERSATIONS WE HAD ABOUT IMPROVING OUR HEAT ISLAND EFFECT. WE CAN HAVE THE CONVERSATIONS OTHERS AREN'T HAVING AND WHAT AHEAD OF THE GAME. >> I WOULD BE HAPPY IF YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO DO THAT I WOULD BE HAPPY TO DO THAT. HOWEVER YOU WANT TO DO. >> I WOULD ASSUME THERE'S DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS FOR BACKYARD. I THINK IT IS A REALLY GOOD THING FOR BACKYARD. TO YOUR POINT . [01:55:02] ] >> WOULD YOU WANT SOMETHING THAT EXPANDS TO OTHER ? >> I SEE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY HERE TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING MORE. THIS IS ONE OF THOSE ITEMS PART OF THE INITIATIVES. MAYBE IT IS MORE LIKE A GREEN INITIATIVE. CITY ATTORNEY, MI WITHIN ENOUGH? >> I THINK WE ARE CLOSE ENOUGH. >> SO, WE WILL EXPLORE THE PERMEABLE SURFACES AND IF THAT EXPLORATION LEADS US INTO OTHER AVENUES CERTAINLY WE WILL BRING THOSE FORWARD AS WELL. >> COUNCILMEMBER REAVES , IS THERE ANOTHER ONE? HONESTLY THAT SEEMS LIKE A GREAT TEAM. ALL RIGHT. >> AS PART OF YOUR RESEARCH TALK TO HOAS SPECIFICALLY TO SEE WHAT FEEDBACK THEY MIGHT HAVE. THEY WOULD HAVE SOME PRETTY GOOD INSIGHT TO HOW THEY WOULD FEEL IF SOMETHING LIKE THAT WERE ALLOWED . >> THEY MIGHT STILL HAVE THE INSIGHT. IF THE CITY WERE TO PASS THIS THEY SAY THEY AREN'T GOING TO ALLOW IT. HOW MUCH HAVE YOU REALLY ACCOMPLISHED? >> I WAS GOING TO SAY. >> WE ARE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT RESIDENTIAL. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO WRITE AN ORDINANCE THAT WILL BE EXTRAORDINARY DIFFICULT. IS THERE A PERFORMANCE? NOT EXACTLY A CRITERIA BUT SOMETHING FOR CONCRETE SURFACES AS FAR AS WEIGHT LOADS IN THESE TYPE OF THINGS FOR RESIDENTIAL HOUSES. YOU CAN MAKE PERMEABLE SYSTEMS OR AT LEAST A BENCHMARK. MAKE THAT THE BENCHMARK THEN WHATEVER SYSTEM YOU ARE LOOKING AT TO TRY TO MATCH THOSE REALLY TIGHTENS IT UP . >> IT'S THROUGH THE SUBCOMMITTEE PROCESS. OBVIOUSLY I WOULD EXPECT THAT TO BE A COLLABORATIVE EFFORT WITH SOME STAFF INPUT AS TO WHAT MADE THEIR THOUGHTS ON THE SURFACES AND HOW WOULD THAT ALIGN WITH THOSE CERTAIN CODE REQUIREMENTS AND ALL OF THAT? THIS WOULD BE A COLLABORATIVE EFFORT AND COME UP WITH SOMETHING. >> THAT'S AWESOME. >> GREAT, I THINK IT WILL TURN OUT NICE. ALL RIGHT. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS TOPIC? SOUNDS LIKE THE COMMITTEE HAS [4. DISCUSS CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS FOR June 4, 2024 CITY COUNCIL MEETING.] FUN WORK TO DO. ITEM FOUR IS TO DISCUSS CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS FOR THE JUNE 4TH 2024 CITY COUNCIL MEETING. ANY UPDATE TO THE CONSENT ITEMS ? >> >> OKAY. >> >> THAT IS THE PURCHASE OF CITY-OWNED PROPERTY. 6B. ANYTHING ELSE? ALL RIGHT. WITH THAT , * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.